How quickly do bullets "weld" to the neck?

[M-61]

Be interesting as what ‘riflewoman’ would reply.
Been nearly a year since she posted so I’m not looking for her response. Actually a real shame.

 

[K22]

Before the internet, the circles I traveled in never heard of this phenomenon. We loaded our ammo and shot it. Rounds left over were held to the next range session, hunting trip or season.

I often reload for varmint hunting in the winter for the upcoming spring and summer seasons so the rounds can sit for 6 months or longer. Furthermore, I often have reloads carryover to the next season. I have never noticed any change in performance in these rounds.

Now before everyone unloads on me, out of curiosity, I have felt the "click" resistance on reloads sitting for some period of time when I seated the bullet deeper just to observe this "click". Also, several members smarter than me have posted the science that substantiates that this phenomenon exists. But all I am saying is that I have not experience and negative effect. However, I am not an ultra-precision benchrest or long rang F class shooter either. Maybe it matters for that discipline, I don't know.

I plan to conduct an experiment, seating the bullets purposely long, letting them sit for 6 months+ and see if there is any improvement. However, based on my past experience over 50 some years, I doubt there will be, but I am willing to test the premise and always open to learning more. If one truly believes this can have an effect or has experienced it, then the simple solution is just to seat the bullet long and reseat them before you go shooting. Just make sure you mark the cartridge containers to remind you.

Here again I suspect this is another "Boggie man" created by the internet like barrel break in.

 

[nmkid]

Around 2013 I was given 10(+/- boxes of 20 rounds of 300 WIN MAG. 200 loaded rounds. I took them for the brass. According to the load info on the box, the rounds were all loaded many years before I got them. Using the hammer-type tool to remove the bullet was a no-no. So, I used a different tool. The bullets all came out...Along with the case necks! That's when I first learned about this "cold weld' thingy.

 

[dmoran]

To many variations in case neck prep to determine a normality for all ammo - IMO.
With that said, below is two 5-shot groups of 1000yd BR ammo loaded 9-13-2019 that I shot 7-17-2023 (a couple weeks shy of 4-years later):




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[Dgd6mm]

K22 I was wondering that about my leftover prairie dog rounds. Should I save them for next year or shoot them up and load fresh ones?

 

[searcher]

Bullets loaded dry weld. Case necks with dry lube graphite do not weld. No metal to metal contact. I have won 1000 yard matches with loads that were years old.

I agree with the "lube" stopping - if not minimizing the cold weld. I moly my ammo intended for long term storage or when pre-loading for accuracy work. If they are bare, I lightly vacuum bag them.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Listen to the noise made when they seated their ammo.
The ammo was made shortly before shipping to the UK three months ahead of the matches.

You don't have to watch the whole thing, just forward to 08:03 and the segment is a few seconds long.

There is an obvious "pop" when he re-seats the bullet, no doubt about it. However, there are a few critical things we have no way of knowing:

We don't know if this is actually cold "welding", especially cold welding of the sort reputed to cause case necks to come off with the bullet when fired. It could be a little "pop" caused by using some sort of lubricant that dried in the neck. It certainly didn't seem to take him much effort to move/re-seat the bullets.

We don't know what the precision of the rounds would have been if he had seated the bullets to the correct seating depth and used them in the matches. They might have shot very well.

We don't know whether he used lube such as colloidal graphite in the necks prior to seating bullets. For some reason it's in my mind that he does, but I don't know that with certainty. IF he does, it did not prevent the "pop" whe the bullets were re-seated.

The notion of "cold-welding" has always seemed to me to be largely an imagined, "what if" sort of thing. I have fired loaded ammunition that was months to years old in matches numerous times and it shot exactly as expected. I have never observed any unusual behavior from such rounds, and I do not use any sort of lube or other material aimed at preventing "cold welding". I will state that my brass has a visible patina on the inside of the neck, even after cleaning in SS pins. I have always assumed it to be a very thin layer of oxidation. Regardless, it is visible to the naked eye. In other words, the inside surface of the case necks is not squeaky clean and perfectly brass colored when I seat bullets. So that might be playing some role in preventing the "cold welding" process in my loaded rounds. The bottom line is that much of the information out there regarding "cold welding" is anecdotal at best.

 

[3Ackleys]

Have a buddy that hunts with his grandad's pre 64 Win. His GD had sent it to Weatherby in the 60's to be rechambered to 300 Wby. My buddy is still shooting reloads from the 60's with no issues.

 

[762willdo]

How does the military overcome this issue when I was in we were shooting 50.cal from before the Korean War and I was in in the early 80’s

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Bullet weld, to be a problem, has to make things worse in some way. It might, but I think there is a logical argument that could be made that it might improve accuracy rather than hurt it, too.

I've shot ammo on a few occasions that had bullet weld and it shot fine...maybe even better than before. If anything, it would increase starting pressures a small amount. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Just a thought is all.

 

[dmoran]

@gunsandgunsmithing - I can concur with you on that aspect as well ! ! !
Will also add, believe it can go both ways, dependent on case neck preparation steps.

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[ballisticdaddy]

A few years back I had loaded some 6BR ammo for a f-class match that was cancelled due to weather. I did not get a chance to shoot that ammo until my next match, 14 months later. I shot 200/198/200 and won the match and there was not one shooter that believed I shot those scores with ammo more than a year old. The ammo was loaded and then stored in the safe which lives in my garage in the rockies. Did they have in face have bullet weld? Not sure but did not seem to effect the accuracy one bit.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I have had left over rounds from both Group Matches and VFS Matches shot as much as a month later, and they still shot great.

I think a lot of this “welded” stuff come from the difficulty we have pulling bullets If the need arises.
I have had rounds that were loaded with no more than .002 neck tension almost defy having the bullets pulled.

During a discussion at out annual Tomball Gun Club meeting, we were talking about pre loading. One of our shooters who had attended the Nationals at Raton said he had about 20 loaded rounds left from July.
He shot them just a few days ago and said the shot so good he was thinking about pre loa ding 3 months in advance for our Matches.

 

[mike mccormick]

How does the military overcome this issue when I was in we were shooting 50.cal from before the Korean War and I was in in the early 80’s

Yep. I shot some 30-06 ball ammo from 1942 a couple years ago. No issues. Weird.....

 

[miningshawn]

Wow!
This went a lot farther than I thought, and with lots of good info. I like to load in the winter, when it is negative stupid and windy outside. I also like to load large batches.

My belief is that powder charge matters less than neck tension and seating depth when working in an accuracy node. I will probably add bullet lube (graphite) to my loading, and avoid loading virgin brass and letting it sit.

Thanks everyone for your experience. I couldn't find a dang thing before.

 

[DShortt]

I am by no means an expert on this subject and am only guessing here so take this as nothing but food for thought.
So many of us utilize different reloading techniques and under different conditions that I'd say it is impossible to say with any certainly if case neck welding will or will not occur. I do know with certainly that I've experienced problems other shooters have not and likewise I've not experienced problems other shooters have.
In my thinking it's best to keep this possibility in mind and *if* an unexpected result appears on target with ammo that has been sitting a while it is something worth investigating. If you don't see an issue on the target then obviously it's not a problem in your particular situation and I'd not concern myself with it.

Just my personal opinion and observations and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Old school thought was that the neck opens before the bullet moves forward. The logic is simple enough and hard to refute. If true, I don't see how necks can come off due to cold welding...which is real. I've seen it and heard the "pop" too many times. I do see it acting much like heavy neck tension in regard to tune though. As far as the neck opening before the bullet moves forward, I've seen nothing reliable to contradict this and it seems supportive of jamming bullets as opposed to jumping. Just more stuff to think about before season is actually over. Lol!

 

[cdgaydos]

I had an experience which I attributed to cold welding…

Had some ~3 month old rounds of a pet load that I shot side by side with fresh loads using about 0.1grn powder more… same brass, bullets, powder…

The old loads shot about 35 fps faster than the new loads with more powder.

The brass was new… I attributed the squeaky clean brass or any protective coatings added to the brass as the culprit…

Started using graphite in the necks on the new brass. Maybe just piece of mind. My experience was certainly not based on any solid experimentation…

 

[Homerange]

Wow!
This went a lot farther than I thought, and with lots of good info. I like to load in the winter, when it is negative stupid and windy outside. I also like to load large batches.

My belief is that powder charge matters less than neck tension and seating depth when working in an accuracy node. I will probably add bullet lube (graphite) to my loading, and avoid loading virgin brass and letting it sit.

Thanks everyone for your experience. I couldn't find a dang thing before.

AFAIK some competitive shooters manage this by loading long and seating to depth just before matches.
If you were to load large batches it's something you might consider experimenting with and let the target tell you your truth on this matter.

 

[Tesoro]

When I lived in central america I gave a new s&w airweight to a friend. Last year he told me he shot it with some 20yr old win factory ammo ( stored in high humidity) and the first shot blew his cylinder to smithereens. Luckily no injuries,