How quickly do bullets "weld" to the neck?

[Tesoro]

Here in lies an additional layer of complexity as some believe this could lead to variation in bullet hold and as we know bullet hold is a fairly large contributor to accuracy.

I was thinking that same thing. I finger roll my bullets with imperial and call it good. I like to vibro my brass so it looks all perty, and just bought a bag of cheap slick foam ear plugs to stick in the necks. Haven't tried it yet.

 

[searcher]

For the guys who have ran into this i would ask where were they stored? All my loades are stored indoors. A/C during summer and heater during winter. Nothing is outside or in garage. My garage can be over 130 in summer months. Would be curious on similar conditions that may cause this

Regarding the ammo I had that cold welded over time as noted above, my ammo is stored in an insulated and well-sealed workshop, and due to the relatively mild climate where I live, it never gets above 75-80 in the garage, nor below around 45-50. Not a rainy or humid climate, either. Probably about as ideal as can get except super-dry desert weather or indoors.

 

[Tesoro]

So how does factory ammo stop it then? I am looking at some '06 box Norma I have on my desk with a loupe and no crimp and I see a nice gap at end of case neck. no wax. Or is welding and issue with factoy too?!

 

[DShortt]

I've heard tell leaving powder residue in the neck is a contributing factor so perhaps that's why it's not seen with factor ammunition?

Then again most of us reload because we aren't satisfied with the accuracy level of factory ammo so who knows?

 

[Tesoro]

I have read that some top shooters only use new brass. Probably get more consistent neck grab? BU tthey dont let that stuff sit around..and if they have to then they seat long and bring the arbor press to the match.

 

[Triple BB]

I dip all my case necks in Mica dust. Never had an issue...

 

[Bojo]

Late 2000’s I loaded up a few hundred rounds of 22 hornet to run through my model 43 standard for a prairie dog hunt that was in turn canceled due to mass layoffs where the group of us worked. If I go out and shoot those 40 grain Sierra bullets out of that gun it will with very near 100 percent certainty split the necks. If I take what I think I may shoot in an evening in a chuck field and just put the back in the press and re run the same seating process but with a little speed and force at the end of the stroke I will hardly split any. Just my experience and it’s worth what you paid for it.

 

[searcher]

So how does factory ammo stop it then? I am looking at some '06 box Norma I have on my desk with a loupe and no crimp and I see a nice gap at end of case neck. no wax. Or is welding and issue with factoy too?!

Factory ammo (bare copper to brass) doesn't stop it. I have some 20-year old factory .375 H&H Winchester ammo I bought for the brass (another shortage!), and they had cold welded a lot. So much so, I didn't want to fire them after pulling a few. When one looks at the old cases of military surplus ammo we used to be able to get, a lot of it was fired in old firearms and people assumed the gun was unsafe when things went south. It was more likely the surplus ammo fired in it. I got ahold of some WW2 or Korean war .45 ACP ammo that would destroy the cases trying to pull the bullets. I can't imagine the pressures built up when firing. That is an extreme example - and who knows where it was stored. Some foreign munitions plants place a substance on the inside of the neck when seating their bullets and I'm not sure whether they do that simply as a seal, to get around the adverse effects of crimping or whether to allow it to store for longer period and remain serviceable or all the above. Kind of like a black tar. I think even some ammo from Tula had that sealant in some 6.5 Grendel loads i also bought for brass during a shortage. Similar to what Tru Velocity makes for our government (the polymer case ammo).

 

[JB10]

I have head of this issue before just never thought about bulk loads i have sitting around. Better go to the range and use it then... i pretty much quit loading rounds unless i know ill be using it soon. About a month ago i loaded some rounds for my winter predator hunting. Got to try them out 2 weeks ago and hope to tey out more this coming up sunday.

 

[Tesoro]

Kind of a downer for the paranoids who 'stock pile ammo' !! I guess the only ammo to safely stockpile is 22lr lead nose

 

[justinp61]

I’m not a high volume shooter like many here. When I load it’s in 50 round batches. Two years ago I screwed together a LH 22-250. While working up a load for it I decided to shoot my old heavy barrel Savage 22-250. The rifle hadn’t been fired in three or four years and the ammo was loaded close to five years ago. The rifle is zeroed at 200 yards and normally shoots well under moa. That day it shot 2 1/2” high and the groups were 2” plus. There were only about 15 rounds left so I shot it all. About two weeks later I prepped and loaded 10 of the brass with the same load that had printed high and scattered. The rifle shot back on zero and the groups tightened up.

I don’t know if my experience was caused by cold welding or not, but I’ve started dipping my case necks in graphite before charging the powder. It makes a noticeable difference in bullet seating effort, don’t know what long term results will be though.

I mentioned this before when this subject comes up. Could the sweat or oils/acids on our finger tips (handling bullets) contribute to the cold welding?

 

[Tesoro]

Well there is an idea for an experiment by someone who has an arbor press with seating pressure gauge! Be like winemaking, let the different varities age in a damp cool place and then test them!

 

[M-61]

Personally I think cold welding is a theory.
However my only strange experience occurred during the last component shortage.
222 REM. I was running low on supplies and dug deep into a cabinet. Found 40 that I had loaded in 1977. Took one out and could easily see how deep the bullets were seated in the neck. All of them appeared the same. No measurements were needed as the line wasn’t only visible you could clearly see the brass had ‘shrunk’ slightly were the bullet stopped in the neck. The cartridges all chambered.
I shot none of them simply because they didn’t look right at all. Not having attended metallurgy school,
I had no idea what had happened. Just knew I wasn’t shooting them.
Pulled the bullets, and case, powder and primers got discarded.
Yes they were neck turned and loaded over 30 years before. Have never run across this before.
Their storage over the years varied wildly.

 

[coldboreshot]

I've heard tell leaving powder residue in the neck is a contributing factor so perhaps that's why it's not seen with factor ammunition?

Then again most of us reload because we aren't satisfied with the accuracy level of factory ammo so who knows?

Never seen it in any of the Federal Gold Medal I shot in the past. Some where in inventory for over a year before purchase and some I had more than a year before I used them. All shot spectacular with no issues. I've loaded rounds that sat for almost 2 years and no issues. Still shot in the mid 1's with single sigit SDs. Sounds like another "Popcorn Topic" to me.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I wonder if factory ammo makers wax their bullets..or similar. Also, I think its a form of oxidation and a little carbon, a little humidity and whatever else, might contribute to that process happening sooner with handloads. I danzac coat everything and even then, they are not impervious to this cold weld. I do wash my bullets in acetone or laquer thinner as the first step of the coating process. Of course that step would remove any left over lube and or wax. I think Berger still waxes theirs with something...fwiw.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

In reading through all the posts in this thread I find it hard to believe that most of you guys ever have the time to actually shoot with all these different reloading procedures. This season I have shot over 40 matches and gone through over 5,000 rounds of hand loaded ammo....with a few months still left in the year. I really do enjoy reloading but my goal is to shoot matches and not spend days trying to avoid bullet weld

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

In reading through all the posts in this thread I find it hard to believe that most of you guys ever have the time to actually shoot with all these different reloading procedures. This season I have shot over 40 matches and gone through over 5,000 rounds of hand loaded ammo....with a few months still left in the year. I really do enjoy reloading but my goal is to shoot matches and not spend days trying to avoid bullet weld

Yeah...I'm usually loading ammo the night before a match. It doesn't have time to weld. Lol!

 

[SEM]

well this may just be the answer to the LiLGun issue I had in the past in 22 hornet and 221 FB, lost a bunch of cases that were only a few years old all stored indoors, That is when I started annealing religously, I take better care of my ammo than I do myself.

 

[K22]

Never seen it in any of the Federal Gold Medal I shot in the past. Some where in inventory for over a year before purchase and some I had more than a year before I used them. All shot spectacular with no issues. I've loaded rounds that sat for almost 2 years and no issues. Still shot in the mid 1's with single sigit SDs. Sounds like another "Popcorn Topic" to me.

I have had the same experience with reloads for more years than I can count and have seen similar results at the range with fellow shooters shooting Federal Premium factory ammo.

 

[kevinbritvec]

Just like the title asks, in your opinion how soon do bullets weld to necks? In my example: I loaded a batch of .308 Starline cases that had been once fired, tumbled in walnut, loaded with 185 Juggernauts, then set in a climate controlled room for over a year. They exhibited zero velocity shift.

I am curious how long I can load in advance before experiencing issues. FWIW I live in Montana - lower humidity and high DA. I'm sure a lowland reloader has different circumstances.

When in doubt, seated the bullets .005" deeper prior to shooting them.