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Redding fl bushing die ?

As others have said, a donut is not something that forms on the outside of the neck, but on the inside. Even a true donut, I think of as a complete non-issue as long as the base of the bullet isn't seated into it or below. It's a catchy term that gets way too much attention as long as its below the seated bullet. If the bullet does have to seat below that point, the bushing not sizing that portion of the neck can actually prevent it from being an issue then too, if there is enough neck clearance and the bushing never pushes it back inside the neck. IOW, let it form and just don't push it back in. Again, this only works if there is enough neck clearance where the bullet never contacts it and it never get pushed back it.

Don't sweat them if you're not seating into it.
What he said, don’t sweat the donut.
 
Glad i found this thread. Was just about to ask this on a RCBS MatchMaster die (SAC bushing). Adjusted all the way down only sizes a tad over half of the neck. About the same level of sizing on all calibers I've tried, 308, 6mmbr, and 6x47. Have not tried the 223 yet. Moving from a Dillon 550 to a turret press, and wondered if there was a trick to sizing all the neck.

Thanks to all who contributed.
 
This doesnt seem right to me? But i have Redding. See RCBS video 1:30 into it.

The good part is, sizing 1/2 of the neck, produced best accuracy for me.(Redding)
Where to begin...
Setting your sizing die to cam may over size your brass pushing shoulders back to far in essence fire forming every time it shot. I've never had case head separation, and I believe this is a recipe for it.
I have 2 cartridges that would not size/bump shoulders 6.5-284 & 6br when shell holder was in contact with die. After facing off a shell holder .010" I can now set up the die using feeler gauges and comparator to achieve desired shoulder bump.
The rest of our cartridges I'm able to use a standard shell holder and feeler gauges to achieve bump, 1 in particular a 260 uses a .006 gauge between die and shell holder to achieve .002 bump.
If I were to set this die up as per video instructions I'd be sizing my brass .008"
each sizing Setting myself up for case head separation.
Hopefully I explained this properly so it's understandable.

Let's keep in mind not all dies, chambers or reamers are created equal.
Here is 2 30-06 rounds the cartridge on the left was sized with a Wilson FL Bushing die, cartridge on right was a Redding FL Bushing die.
The Wilson only sizing about 60% of neck, whereas the Redding is getting about 90%.20230922_081138.jpg
 
does a donut affect the accuracy of the rifle ? Is it correct to say that when using a bushing die the donut stays on the outside of the case neck ?
The donut is inside the neck. It is caused by shoulder metal flowing forward with each shot. Nothing to do with sizing. That's why do you have to trim the neck length. Erik Cortina says all the top long distant shooters use a bushing die.
 
And there's your answer a month later. Never will have a rifle that I have to turn necks.
Can't blame ya. I went no turn, even on cases necked down, in 2019. No looking back from me on this one. I can open the chamber neck in one pass...one op and never worry about Lapua brass, to date. Just make sure you have sufficient clearance as some of their latest(Ha!) brass is a tad thicker than it was before so the down side, if you want to call it one, is you can be chasing a moving target in spec'ing a reamer neck diameter if you are one to chase a specific amount of clearance..like .002 over a loaded round. Go at least .003 and forget about it! I just ordered a new reamer the other day and went an additional thou over my old no turn number. Hopefully, that's safe. If not, I'll get a chucking reamer and open the neck before the bbl comes out of the lathe so that it's done in a single setup...preferably.
 
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I just switched to a Redding FL bushing die for my 6.5 Grendel. I was having case neck splits on first reloads when using the Redding FL std die. It was working the brass too much. The bushing die solved the problem. It sizes about 3/4 of the neck and does not overwork the brass. I can’t yet say that the accuracy of my pet load has improved, but I sure am happy about the increased case life.
 
I never knew about donuts til I switched from Lake City brass to Lapua in 223 cal.
Does the donut happen with all 223 brass ?
They can happen on anything but are predominant and more pronounced on a case that has been necked up, as brass that used to be part of the shoulder is now part of the neck, at the bottom of the neck. Shoulder brass is typically thicker than the brass in the neck. So, it's a natural donut induced by necking up. The other cause is simply brass flowing forward from firing and sizing. That brass has to go somewhere and that junction catches a lot of the flow but the flow is also why we have to trim periodically too.
 
Does the donut happen with all 223 brass ?
The AMP Annealing Company has/had some photos of 223 brass showing the thickness at the neck shoulder junction. New brass seems to be thicker/has donut in that area? Some brands of brass make it almost impossibe to get the expander out of the lubed case necks.
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The AMP Annealing Company has/had some photos of 223 brass showing the thickness at the neck shoulder junction. New brass seems to be thicker/has donut in that area? Some brands of brass make it almost impossibe to get the expander out of the lubed case necks.
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Pretty cool. Anything's possible but the reasons I stated for brass thickening at the neck shoulder junction are realistic across all brass makes and cartridges. It's simply brass flow and/or thicker brass becoming part of the neck, as your pics would also indicate will happen. At some point, regardless of pics in certain circumstances, there are easy real world tests that can prove or disprove if/when brass thickens in that area. That test is to simply slide a bullet into a fired case. Unless the chamber is excessively generous, a donut on the inside can be felt and will even stop the bullet from falling into a fired case if the clearance is not generous enough. It's just a good test that has been around pretty much forever and you may well be aware of. But simply sliding a bullet into a fired case will often detect formation of a donut and if there is sufficient neck clearance for your loaded brass, in your chamber. Still, cool pic but I think it's very limited in scope where my post was much more general because it happens in all cases, to varying degrees. It looks like there might be a very slightly thinner spot on one of those that may be there for this reason or more likely, that's a beneficial byproduct of the mfg process. Hope all that is clear as I don't have time to wade deep into the weeds on this but it's something I think you are either aware of or can logically surmise.
 
It takes multiple draws/annealing to go from a brass cup, to trim and headstamping the brass and then the final case forming/punching of the flash hole. For me , the quality/molecular formula of the brass is what is going to control how uniform the brass wall thickness is, especially at the neck shoulder and body/shoulder contours. No donuts, except the glazed kind for me. I mandrel.
 
I've tried to push donuts out with mandrels to see, it didn't work. I always size the I.D of my necks and then check with pin guages I have found even after a mandrel is used a pin guage won't slide down past the nk shoulder- junction with one that is .0005 smaller than neck size.
Of course correct freebore used to match the bullet helps alot
 

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