Will the 6PPC Ever Be Surpassed in the Short Range Benchrest Game ?

[BoydAllen]

Lots of folks were shooting some form of a Talldog (0.080” short br) when 220 Russian brass was no longer available. I believe most were using Remington 7mm BR brass to do this.
Did all that effort go by the wayside because the brass was more difficult to make afte Lapua started making 220 Russian brass?
I mostly shoot a Waldog because, in my hands, nothing has came close to the accuracy I get from it. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not winning either.
Will the Talldog run with a PPC?
CW

Have you looked at the availability of Lapua 6BR brass recently? Not encouraging...

 

[Mulligan]

Have you looked at the availability of Lapua 6BR brass recently? Not encouraging...

Although Alpha and Peterson are not making PPC/220 brass they are making good American made BR brass.
CW

 

[cwood59]

Curtis, I'd heed Scott's advice and look for a Scoville/Scarborough/Tony Larson/Kelbly KLP, etc package.

Good shootin' -Al

Al,

I agree and have pretty much gotten used to that idea. In my perfect world, I'd love to have everything brand new and untouched by other hands, but that is not the world I'm seeing right now. I have no issue with buying a rifle to get a "donor stock".

Curtis

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

One thing you need to look at is where will you get brass? No Lapua 220 Russian available. No 6.5 Grendel Lapua out there. Lapua 6br is scarce to non existent.

Yep, supposedly until July of 2024. That's one reason I load my 6 grendels to upper end ppc loads rather than stomping on the throttle. I should be in good shape but when I generally dedicate 200 pieces to a barrel and I have 3 at a time, I can really wade through it if I start pushing it too hard.

 

[357Mag]

I have too much time on my hands. I have been out of the 100/200 LV/HV benchrest game for over 15 years now. I'm just about ready to retire and was thinking about taking another look at that game. I still look at NBRSA and IBS match results from time to time and it seems like the 6PPC will never be a "has been" in short range benchrest competition. I guess that's why I shot it back then. Heck, I still have 1 8-lb unopened jug of VV N133 (marked 7.5.2008) plus a few 1-lb'ers. I, like everybody else, love the 6PPC. But you just have to wonder what's coming down the pike. I keep thinking about putting together another 10.5 lb. gun as I sold all my guns back then (kept all my reloading stuff). I'm older, not necessarily wiser, more profitable, and have a lot more insurance. I wish there were more "stock options" like there was 20-30 years ago.

Please chime in with any passing thoughts.

Thanks

All -

Howdy !

Hey... it occurs to me that I should perhaps apologize... to the multiple great custom bullet makers the are vital contributors to success in the sport.

Many wonderful things have been accomplished by these folks, using the current tech, state-of-the-art; and when their products are shot in today's guns.

My intent was not to in any way criticize custom bullet makers, nor did I intend to even suggest these guys need to change their product(s). New records are yet to be shot and matches yet to be won w/o having to change current custom bullet offerings; or manufacturing methods

One simple answer to the OP is that nothing will supplant the 6PPC, unless....
someone puts in the time, talent, money et al; to see development through to completion.
And of course even then.... repeatable successes made a shooter using the new cartridge in significant venues would have to show merits of the new cartridge.

IF there is no large scale call made for such a cartridge from the rank & file, and/or elected officials within the sport; any new would ultimately come in the form of a
" wildcat " from a wildcatter' that can also shoot @ the top level in the sport enough times for people to take note. Palmisano & Pindell showed that it can be done.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[pitbull]

Has anyone seen a 6arc competing on the fireing line. I don't do big competitions but some local. Never seen one

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Has anyone seen a 6arc competing on the fireing line. I don't do big competitions but some local. Never seen one

Not a one, yet. Good brass is a factor. Of course you could form it from 220r or grendel brass but what's the point?

 

[cwood59]

Not a one, yet. Good brass is a factor. Of course you could form it from 220r or grendel brass but what's the point?

Starline is putting it out. Shootingbot shows Precision Reloading has it fairly often.....just sayin'

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Starline is putting it out. Shootingbot shows Precision Reloading has it fairly often.....just sayin'

Starline shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Lapua, unfortunately. It's not close. It measures good but doesn't hold up at nearly the same pressure

 

[cwood59]

Starline shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Lapua, unfortunately. It's not close. It measures good but doesn't hold up at nearly the same pressure

My bad...................I am willing to bet that Starline aimed their recent production of 6mm ARC brass towards the AR guys..........(lower pressure)............i dunno, just an observation

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

My bad...................I am willing to bet that Starline aimed their recent production of 6mm ARC brass towards the AR guys..........(lower pressure)............i dunno, just an observation

I would say you're right

 

[SD guy]

If 6mm ARC had any chance you would think that Peterson cartridge would be embracing it as well as Lapua. May wish to change up the throat & twist rate for the short range game.

If brass was avaiable, Does Peterson hold a candle to Lapua?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

If 6mm ARC had any chance you would think that Peterson cartridge would be embracing it as well as Lapua. May wish to change up the throat & twist rate for the short range game.

If brass was avaiable, Does Peterson hold a candle to Lapua?

I've never seen it yet but AFAIK, Lapua is the only small primer, small flah hole brass other than their 220r

 

[Mulligan]

Peterson announced at the Shot Show, they would be releasing 6 Arc brass this year

2023 Peterson Cartridge New – 6mm ARC Brass & Loaded Hunting/Target Ammunition in other Cartridges | Varminter Magazine

www.varminter.com

CW

 

[jackieschmidt]

A little off the subject, but I have always held that one of the major factors in allowing us to shoot the 6PPC at the higher end pressures that we do is the Lapua 220 Russian Case.

The other manufactures do not seem to get this.

 

[SteveOak]

There are other calibers that are capable of shooting just as accurate. Some are even easier to tune and keep in tune, but the 6 ppc will remain the first choice for benchrest shooters. Several reasons. Quality brass, proper capacity to bore ratio, low recoil, great powder selection, and we tend to follow the leaders in the sport. I'm sure there are other reasons, but I have given more than enough reasons.

Michael

@mturner What cartridge(s) do you consider easier to tune?

 

[SteveOak]

A little off the subject, but I have always held that one of the major factors in allowing us to shoot the 6PPC at the higher end pressures that we do is the Lapua 220 Russian Case.

The other manufactures do not seem to get this.

I infer from your statement that you find the Lapua 220 Russian case to be different from the cases of other manufacturers in a way that other Lapua cases are not.

Why would a 6mm BR Lapua case not have similar qualities?

 

[SteveOak]

The primer tube thing was tried by the likes of Elmer Keith way back in the ‘50’s in attempts to achieve more efficiency in a given case, especially cases that tended to be long and skinny for the bullet diameter, such wildcats like the 25 Niedner, which later was to become the 25/06.

The results were inconclusive, but I think the shorter, fatter powder column of many of todays modern chamberings in a way accomplishes the same thing.

Here is a question. If Palmisano and Pindell had used ANY case other Than the 220 Russian as the parent case for their idea, would there be so much inherited hatred for the 6PPC that seems to permeate many shooters outside of Short Range BENCHREST.

There actually was another case that was a serious contender, what is now known as the 6mm BR. I was talking with a friend that has been shooting BR for a long time the other day. He was around when P&P were developing the 6 PPC. One of the people who was also involved in some way with this effort (I will get the name.) tried to pusuade Remington to make a short 308 case, but they would not. The best they would do was a thin walled 308 case to make case forming more feasible. His assertion was that if Remington had made a BR case, it would be the de facto standard instead of the PPC.

That the people who shoot 6 PPC continue to cram more and more powder into the PPC case, makes me wonder if a slightly larger case would not be better.

 

[AlNyhus]

If brass was avaiable, Does Peterson hold a candle to Lapua?

The Peterson BR brass is pretty good.

 

[AlNyhus]

A little off the subject, but I have always held that one of the major factors in allowing us to shoot the 6PPC at the higher end pressures that we do is the Lapua 220 Russian Case.

The other manufactures do not seem to get this.

Amen. Double ditto for the BR cases. -Al