Hornady LNL progressive press?

[DiRTY DOG]

The tilt occurs when there is pressure created by the sizing die. When there is more push on one side of the plate it cause it to tilt. The amount of tilt varies dependign on how much pressure is required to size a case. Soft brass like Federal won't cause as much tilt as harder brass like Lapua.

It's just a faulty design Unfortunately.

But no serious shooter sizes in the same operation as seating. Right? Because if you do, you can't do any brass prep, like trim, chamfer, debur, or dry lube necks. Even most serious Dillon users size as a seperate operation, true?

For most pistol, and non-match 556 etc, it's probably fine, assuming there is any tilt.

And as another suggested, any tilt would be neutralized if a die opposite the sizer also touches the plate. A seater die or crimp die or hollow decapping die, for example, would stop tilt cold. Yes? Assuming there actually is tilt.

Can anyone SHOW this tilt? Or is it theoretical? Any videos?

 

[big5ifty]

Can anyone SHOW this tilt? Or is it theoretical? Any videos?

The amount of 'tilt' is going to be some fraction of the play in the shellplate.

You may be able to feel the amount of play, just press down on the edge of a shellplate with your finger, it can be measured if you rig up a gauge.

The amount of play has something to do with the clearance required between the shellplate carrier and the detent balls under the shellplate, for shellplate rotation.

Which applies to all progressive presses, because all shellplates need some clearance to rotate over the carrier, and there is flex in the retaining bolt.

If there was no play there would be no clearance which bricks the progressive.

Don't be that somebody that didn't try something that may have turned out good because of what other people said.

Test your process, measure your reloads, and see if they are good enough for you.

And most importantly, don't judge the ammo by it's measurement, judge the target.

 

[divingin]

The amount of 'tilt' is going to be some fraction of the play in the shellplate.

You may be able to feel the amount of play, just press down on the edge of a shellplate with your finger, it can be measured if you rig up a gauge.

The amount of play has something to do with the clearance required between the shellplate carrier and the detent balls under the shellplate, for shellplate rotation.

Which applies to all progressive presses, because all shellplates need some clearance to rotate over the carrier, and there is flex in the retaining bolt.

Play in the shellplate doesn't affect much, IMO, as the cases are pushed against the baseplate when applying force. The shellplate can float wherever and it won't matter, as it doesn't come into play until lowering the ram.

The tilt that affects loading is the baseplate flexing in relation to the centerline of the ram (or the toolhead.)

 

[big5ifty]

... the cases are pushed against the baseplate when applying force.

The cases never touch the baseplate. They are held in the shellplate.

The shellplate does touch the baseplate, if there is enough force it bottoms out.

Someone, I think on this forum, once critiqued some info I had put up , saying my whole write-up was rubbish because the cases ride on the baseplate, not the shellplate. I stupidly changed my writeup hurriedly without thinking, then realised what a load of bull-crap that poster had came up with, but I got sidetracked and never corrected it back. Still got to do that.

That person had obviously never even seen a live progressive press.

 

[cdgaydos]

Sorry, I don't agree about the shell plate tip. The plates have a ridge machined on the bottom that limits tipping. I've been loading .243 varmint on one for years, and my runout is .002 or less. I've certainly never had an issue w/ .223/5.56.

Would I load a 7mm Mag or other heavy case? No, that's why I have a single-stage press as well.

Try checking seating depth with an empty shell plate (only one cartridge on the plate at seating, other stations empty) and with all stations full (especially sizing). For me, the depths are different. Unless, one of the dies is set up to cause a little cam over… in which case the cam over is causing a repeatable pressure on the plate. I always see the difference when setting up pistol rounds… setting up each station individually vs running with a full shell plate.

Not a huge issue if I account for it during set up… running a full shell plate is no problem.

If you don’t see this issue, something is wrong with my press that I’ve been dealing with for about 12 years… which would be my luck.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Try checking seating depth with an empty shell plate (only one cartridge on the plate at seating, other stations empty) and with all stations full (especially sizing). For me, the depths are different. Unless, one of the dies is set up to cause a little cam over… in which case the cam over is causing a repeatable pressure on the plate. I always see the difference when setting up pistol rounds… setting up each station individually vs running with a full shell plate.

Not a huge issue if I account for it during set up… running a full shell plate is no problem.

If you don’t see this issue, something is wrong with my press that I’ve been dealing with for about 12 years… which would be my luck.

Why don't you just set your seating die to touch, or sliiightly cam over, to counter the sizing die, which is set the same way? That way it shouldn't matter if the plate is full or not. At least not at the top of the stroke.

 

[cdgaydos]

Why don't you just set your seating die to touch, or sliiightly cam over, to counter the sizing die, which is set the same way? That way it shouldn't matter if the plate is full or not. At least not at the top of the stroke.

True… I don’t size on the progressive for 223. I use the LFC die (to just touch) in order to get a bit of cam over. A sizing die for a larger caliber (which would not contact my case) could be used as well.

I don’t set the seating die to touch because I use a Forster Micro Seating die with a floating collar… don’t want it bottomed out. Also, some seating dies (especially pistol) have a crimping section which I want to stay away from when seating.

With a bit of cam over (I don’t know if it matters which die bottoms out), I believe everything stays consistent… at least for me. (However, I load all my match ammo on a single stage anyway).

 

[3Ackleys]

The amount of 'tilt' is going to be some fraction of the play in the shellplate.

You may be able to feel the amount of play, just press down on the edge of a shellplate with your finger, it can be measured if you rig up a gauge.

The amount of play has something to do with the clearance required between the shellplate carrier and the detent balls under the shellplate, for shellplate rotation.

Which applies to all progressive presses, because all shellplates need some clearance to rotate over the carrier, and there is flex in the retaining bolt.

If there was no play there would be no clearance which bricks the progressive.

Don't be that somebody that didn't try something that may have turned out good because of what other people said.

Test your process, measure your reloads, and see if they are good enough for you.

And most importantly, don't judge the ammo by it's measurement, judge the target.

The last 3 sentences are priceless advice and should be engraved on a plaque above every loading bench.

 

[drop_point]

You can certainly size any case that there is a die for on a LnL, but it's not a good idea.

The Hornady specifically has a pot-metal part at the critial junction. Part number 29. I'm using the term pot metal as a derogatory term here, because it's not machined steel like it should be, it's the same material as what they make the LnL die bushings from.

Inside that huge ram, is a very high quality indexing rod, which is topped with a male bushing that engages the slot in the center of the shellplate, and rotates it.

When you size large rifle brass or tough .223 brass, The shellplate retaining bolt is being held entirely by that pot-metal bushing. When you pull the brass out of the die, there is a huge tension force through the bolt, into that bushing, which eventually breaks.

You should avoid sizing large cases on any progressive press, as it hugely increases the strain on the shellplate retaining bolt and the underlying sub-assembly, compared to handgun brass.

Some are built stronger than others, but all have the same problem. Even the almighty 1050.

The Pro-Jector is much stronger than the LnL in that area, the parts are machined steel all the way through.

Exactly when is this supposed to break? I’m just asking because I’ve sized over 50,000 rounds of 5.56 and .308 Winchester on mine and it’s going strong.

 

[big5ifty]

I’ve sized over 50,000 rounds of 5.56 and .308 Winchester on mine and it’s going strong.

If it's the EZ-ject model, keep an eye on the wear on the ejector nub that's milled into the carrier plate, if it wears too too low things bind up.

And check on the gouge in the frame that develops under the primer punch. When it gets too deep it affects primer seating

 

[drop_point]

If it's the EZ-ject model, keep an eye on the wear on the ejector nub that's milled into the carrier plate, if it wears too too low things bind up.

And check on the gouge in the frame that develops under the primer punch. When it gets too deep it affects primer seating

I’ve got the primer punch gouge. I’ll keep an eye out for the plate.

I have two of these presses and they’ve done great for me. I keep one for rifles, one for pistols. The pistol unit has over 100k of pistol rounds loaded on it.

 

[big5ifty]

I’ve got the primer punch gouge. I’ll keep an eye out for the plate.

Epoxy the rim of a stainless steel washer to the frame over that gouge. You'll have to re-adjust the primer punch, but it won't wear in again.

 

[divingin]

The cases never touch the baseplate. They are held in the shellplate.

The shellplate does touch the baseplate, if there is enough force it bottoms out.

You are correct. That was my mistake.

That said, the LNL shellplate has a ridge towards the outside diameter that rides on the baseplate. I do not know what the spacing is when in use (I've never checked), but that would limit tip of the plate relative to the baseplate.

For pistol or plinking ammo, none of that slop would make much of a difference, but those tolerances plus all the variables of performing multiple operations at once is why I don't load rifle stuff on the progressive.

 

[Cecil S.]

This is all great information for me as I have not set up and used my LNL press yet. Thank you guys

 

[divingin]

The cases never touch the baseplate. They are held in the shellplate.

The shellplate does touch the baseplate, if there is enough force it bottoms out.

Someone, I think on this forum, once critiqued some info I had put up , saying my whole write-up was rubbish because the cases ride on the baseplate, not the shellplate. I stupidly changed my writeup hurriedly without thinking, then realised what a load of bull-crap that poster had came up with, but I got sidetracked and never corrected it back. Still got to do that.

That person had obviously never even seen a live progressive press.

I needed to load up some 45ACP last night. As I was stuffing cases in, I remembered this thread, and decided to take a picture. On the AP, the cases do, indeed, ride on the baseplate. The shellplate serves to locate the cases under the dies, and pull them out on the ram downstroke.

 

[big5ifty]

Good correction, thanks. And apologies.

I was looking at my Pro 2000 at the time. I never thought to look at my LnL. Which I've had for about 15 years. A clear sign of advancing age.

The ejector nub couldn't eject otherwise.

 

[big5ifty]

The cases never touch the baseplate. They are held in the shellplate.

The shellplate does touch the baseplate, if there is enough force it bottoms out.

This is not the case on the LnL, it is how the RCBS Pro 2000 works. I have both. I got the two mixed up. Apologies to all.

 

[divingin]

No problem, and no need for an apology (IMO.)

I still need to see if the ribs on the LNL shellplate actually ride against the baseplate, or if they're slightly clear (which would mean they're subject to rocking a bit when uneven pressure is applied across the face of the plate.) I suspect they are in contact, though I haven't seen wear marks that would point towards that (not that I've looked.)

In any case, all I load on the LNL is pistol stuff, and with pistol, the ammo is probably the least contributor to my accuracy woes. As Yogi said, "90% of it is half mental."

 

[DiRTY DOG]

How to shim the drive hub and baseplate on the Hornady LnL AP. I'm going to try this. Basically, most benefit from inserting 4-8 thou shims to reduce plate tilt and jarring motion on rotation.

 

[drop_point]

I needed to load up some 45ACP last night. As I was stuffing cases in, I remembered this thread, and decided to take a picture. On the AP, the cases do, indeed, ride on the baseplate. The shellplate serves to locate the cases under the dies, and pull them out on the ram downstroke.

View attachment 1435107

This is how my Hornady presses work. Cases definitely ride the base and that is a good thing.