Hornady LNL progressive press?

[rebs]

Before I do anything, I anneal the brass. First time through the press, I use a universal decapping die, FL sizing die with proper bushing for about 3 thou neck tension and no expanding ball, then a expander mandrel. The brass is then run through the tumbler, then trim/chamfer/deburr in one step, then run through the press again. First station, I keep the decapping die in case I missed anything there, then a second pass through the mandrel die, followed with powder charging, then seating, then crimping on a LEE FCD if its going in an auto-loader. I've found this keeps any residual sizing lube from causing powder to stick in the neck, it gives me and opportunity to trim/chamfer/deburr sized and cleaned brass, and it is just a more pleasant process that takes the violent jarring and cam-action out of the process you get with fully-progressive single-pass reloading. I still do pistol rounds in a single pass but that is another animal.

Why I ask about the VLD seating stem is that I've found they can be a terrible fit for some bullets. Often I see a little ring around the bullet where the VLD seating stem can actually grab onto the jacket and stick and it results in inconsistent seating. I suppose it is pulling the bullet slightly when the ram descends like the previous poster stated. What I ended up doing was taking valve grinding compound and putting it on one of the bullets I Intended to use with that stem and lapped it to get rid of the sharp spot and it solved my problem. That was on a Rock Chucker, not a progressive. Maybe check for a ring on your jacket or next time you seat bullets, cover one with layout die or blue sharpie to see if you can see how much contact the bullet is making with the seating stem.

Thank you for the information.

 

[drop_point]

Thank you for the information.

No problem, here is an article on seating stems:

Do I need VLD Seating Stems?

When loading a Very Low Drag (VLD) bullet or a hybrid bullet, we recommend that you use a VLD seating stem to ensure load consistency.

bergerbullets.com

 

[spaniel]

My LNL is not for precision ammo. That said, my observation is the consistency coming off it is pretty good just not the same as a single stage. But I found decapping/sizing to put a lot of motion into the press, sometimes causing powder to spill out of cases. So I now deprime/size on a single stage, which also gives me a change to anneal or trim if necessary.

 

[Cecil S.]

I bought my LNL to just do my pistol rounds. My rifle will stay on my coax press.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

But I found decapping/sizing to put a lot of motion into the press, sometimes causing powder to spill out of cases. So I now deprime/size on a single stage, which also gives me a change to anneal or trim if necessary.

Mine did too, until I sunk the ball detents under the plate just a LITTLE deeper. Look it up on YouTube. No more pistol powder spill from the jarring motion.

 

[TMc]

First, never measure base to tip. Always measure base to ogive. It doesn't matter the brand of bullet, the base to tip of the bullet will always vary based on how the bullet is made. However, your seating die stem only pushes against the bullet near the ogive. So, if your process is good, the seating depth, base to ogive, will be constant regardless the length of the bullet

There are several reasons why you could be getting different seating depths and it isn't caused by the bullet.

However, the problem with Hornady LnL presses is that you get a lot of shell plate tip. If you are sizing and priming in station 1 and seating a bullet in station 3, the force of sizing is greater that the force of seating a bullet. So.. the shell plate tips towards the station that has your sizing die. Depending on the brass, the pressure required to size some brass is greater than for others which will vary how much the shellplate tips. This will cause varying seating depths on the other side of the shell plate..

You can verify this by leaving brass out of all the other stations and jsut seat a bullet. Your seating depth will be different than what it was when you were also sizing brass, dumping a powder charge, etc.

Most will place shims under the shell plate to reduce the tilt. If you google you will find information on how to do it.

However if your loading 223 for an AR and the difference is only a few thousands, don't worry about it. You are jumping the bullet so far that your rifle will never know the difference.

Thats a good point. If what you say is true (and it makes sense to me) then maybe one solution would be to only size/decap all of your brass in one run, first then remove the die. That would kinde of defete the purpose of the progressive press but may be improve the desired outcome. I currently do alot of 9mm and size/deprime first, then clean brass. then remove the decap/sizing die. After priming station I put the powder drop, powder cop, bullet loading die, then size/crimp die. I get variation in the 9mm C.O.A.L but not enough to worry about. I know some if it comes from cheap 9 projectiles and reusing brass enought that they vary in length. Currently Im just a plinker so not too worried about sub MOA groupings.

 

[TMc]

Mine did too, until I sunk the ball detents under the plate just a LITTLE deeper. Look it up on YouTube. No more pistol powder spill from the jarring motion.

Did sinking the bearings a bit deeper have any negative consequences? Somtthing I have done that seems to reduce the case shake is to greas the heck out of the bottom of the shell plate, and the ram piston (main large piston) with stiky red grease. Seems that the grease on teh piston increases a bit of resistance and slows the up and down motion a bit, which in turn slows down the speed at which the shell plate rotates, which prevents the bearings from popping into detent as fast, which seems to reduce the shaking cases. Not sure this is a valid fix but its just my $0.02 worth of observation.

 

[big5ifty]

.. is to greas the heck out of the bottom of the shell plate,

That area should be clean and dry.

Rather use a small drift punch to move the detent ball in the shellplate.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

Did sinking the bearings a bit deeper have any negative consequences?

None. This is a commonly suggested "fix". Use a punch to sliiiightly adjust the bearing. You'll see what I'm talking about when you look at the bottom of the shell plate.

 

[divingin]

None. This is a commonly suggested "fix". Use a punch to sliiiightly adjust the bearing. You'll see what I'm talking about when you look at the bottom of the shell plate.

So you're inverting the shell plate and sinking the collar that holds the ball bearing in place a bit deeper? Clever...

 

[DiRTY DOG]

So you're inverting the shell plate and sinking the collar that holds the ball bearing in place a bit deeper? Clever...

Exactly. Super easy.

 

[CenterDot]

First, never measure base to tip. Always measure base to ogive. It doesn't matter the brand of bullet, the base to tip of the bullet will always vary based on how the bullet is made. However, your seating die stem only pushes against the bullet near the ogive. So, if your process is good, the seating depth, base to ogive, will be constant regardless the length of the bullet

There are several reasons why you could be getting different seating depths and it isn't caused by the bullet.

However, the problem with Hornady LnL presses is that you get a lot of shell plate tip. If you are sizing and priming in station 1 and seating a bullet in station 3, the force of sizing is greater that the force of seating a bullet. So.. the shell plate tips towards the station that has your sizing die. Depending on the brass, the pressure required to size some brass is greater than for others which will vary how much the shellplate tips. This will cause varying seating depths on the other side of the shell plate..

You can verify this by leaving brass out of all the other stations and jsut seat a bullet. Your seating depth will be different than what it was when you were also sizing brass, dumping a powder charge, etc.

Most will place shims under the shell plate to reduce the tilt. If you google you will find information on how to do it.

However if your loading 223 for an AR and the difference is only a few thousands, don't worry about it. You are jumping the bullet so far that your rifle will never know the difference.

Sorry, I don't agree about the shell plate tip. The plates have a ridge machined on the bottom that limits tipping. I've been loading .243 varmint on one for years, and my runout is .002 or less. I've certainly never had an issue w/ .223/5.56.

Would I load a 7mm Mag or other heavy case? No, that's why I have a single-stage press as well.

 

[spaniel]

Mine did too, until I sunk the ball detents under the plate just a LITTLE deeper. Look it up on YouTube. No more pistol powder spill from the jarring motion.

No problem with pistol rounds. Only 223. Jump when the expander ball pulls through.

 

[Ruger15151]

Sorry, I don't agree about the shell plate tip. The plates have a ridge machined on the bottom that limits tipping. I've been loading .243 varmint on one for years, and my runout is .002 or less. I've certainly never had an issue w/ .223/5.56.

Would I load a 7mm Mag or other heavy case? No, that's why I have a single-stage press as well.

It's not a myth or made up theory. All you need to do is set up a dial indicator on the plate. It move quit a bit.

Measure a couple of plates with a depth mic and you will see that the ridges on the bottom of the shell plates vary a great deal. One plate may have a lot more clearance than another.

If the ridges on the shell plates prevent the plate from tipping, why wouldn't you be able to size a magnum as well?

 

[big5ifty]

why wouldn't you be able to size a magnum as well?

You can certainly size any case that there is a die for on a LnL, but it's not a good idea.

The Hornady specifically has a pot-metal part at the critial junction. Part number 29. I'm using the term pot metal as a derogatory term here, because it's not machined steel like it should be, it's the same material as what they make the LnL die bushings from.

Inside that huge ram, is a very high quality indexing rod, which is topped with a male bushing that engages the slot in the center of the shellplate, and rotates it.

When you size large rifle brass or tough .223 brass, The shellplate retaining bolt is being held entirely by that pot-metal bushing. When you pull the brass out of the die, there is a huge tension force through the bolt, into that bushing, which eventually breaks.

You should avoid sizing large cases on any progressive press, as it hugely increases the strain on the shellplate retaining bolt and the underlying sub-assembly, compared to handgun brass.

Some are built stronger than others, but all have the same problem. Even the almighty 1050.

The Pro-Jector is much stronger than the LnL in that area, the parts are machined steel all the way through.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Maybe silly question.....but if the load is compressed, and the neck tension is light, bullets can find a way out.

 

[divingin]

No problem with pistol rounds. Only 223. Jump when the expander ball pulls through.

Only thing I have a problem with is 9mm. My 32SWL, 38Spl and 45 have enough free case height that a major earthquake wouldn't spill powder. 9mm though sloshes it out as the plate indexes when the ram comes down (I can avoid it by putting a finger on the charged case as the detents pop in, but there's got to be a better way. Sounds like DirtyDog found it.)

FWIW, I don't load any rifle stuff on the LNL. Bulk rifle (when I load it) is done on the Classic single stage, precision stuff on an arbor press.

 

[rebs]

will the VLD seating die also seat SMK's?

 

[DiRTY DOG]

It's not a myth or made up theory. All you need to do is set up a dial indicator on the plate. It move quit a bit.

Measure a couple of plates with a depth mic and you will see that the ridges on the bottom of the shell plates vary a great deal. One plate may have a lot more clearance than another.

I don't have a dial indicator to verify, but my recent make 9mm and 223 plates don't seem to tilt "at all". I would guess that if there WAS tilt, the plate would not tilt until the ram is mostly raised up and the cases are inside the dies. At that point, does a tiny bit of plate tilt, if it even exists, matter?

Does a Rockchucker have any play or "tilt" between the ram head and the shell holder? There's plenty of wiggle room for shell holders to slip in and out. Do some shell holders have tilt machined into them? Does any of that even matter? And how much does it matter? If floating dies are a desirable feature, why aren't floating shell holders also a feature?

 

[Ruger15151]

I don't have a dial indicator to verify, but my recent make 9mm and 223 plates don't seem to tilt "at all". I would guess that if there WAS tilt, the plate would not tilt until the ram is mostly raised up and the cases are inside the dies. At that point, does a tiny bit of plate tilt, if it even exists, matter?

Does a Rockchucker have any play or "tilt" between the ram head and the shell holder? There's plenty of wiggle room for shell holders to slip in and out. Do some shell holders have tilt machined into them? Does any of that even matter? And how much does it matter? If floating dies are a desirable feature, why aren't floating shell holders also a feature?

The tilt occurs when there is pressure created by the sizing die. When there is more push on one side of the plate it cause it to tilt. The amount of tilt varies dependign on how much pressure is required to size a case. Soft brass like Federal won't cause as much tilt as harder brass like Lapua.

It's just a faulty design Unfortunately.