6.5 Creedmoor vs. Other 6.5mm Chamberings
- Thread starter Mr Wick
- Start date
I looked at my notes and had .2915 measurement on a loaded round with Lapua brass and Hornady according to my calipers. So I bet a .289 bushing might be a starting place.
dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
Sounds good.
Yeah there is a bewildering array of cartridges, including less common standards as well as wildcats. We all fall into abbreviations and shorthand which makes it worse for new shooters. I say this because I just got started a few years ago. A lot of people say 6-5 meaning 6.5 Creedmoor because it’s so popular but there are other excellent 6.5 cartridges as you discovered.
It’s better to ask than blow up your face. The loading manuals are essential but there is usually not a book load that *perfectly* matches the primer, brass brand, bullet, and length. But you do need to match the cartridge and powder exactly. Bullet, primer, and brass need to be close. All the more reason to use the book to choose a sane starting load and work up until you see good results or reach a pressure limit.
It sounds like you have quality tools, keep engaged and use the reference materials. Not sure how the .336 bushing will help, since .264+2*.015-.003” puts you in the .291 range. Swap in your actual bullet diameter, actual neck thickness, and desired neck tension to the above to choose your neck bushing.
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Not sure about Mr. Wick.
That being said, anyone reloading should start out with a mentor with years of experience. You can't just buy yourself the best equipment and components and start reloading. You are going to make mistakes that could cause serious damage to yourself, the guy next to you and your firearm.
We all make mistakes over time. You can read all the books and watch all the videos and still not understand everything you are trying to accomplish. Liken this to an old saying, "All college and no knowledge." You don't begin to learn the right way till you have had the experience.
My hope is that Darwin does not raise his ugly head and look in Mr. Wicks direction.
That being said, anyone reloading should start out with a mentor with years of experience. You can't just buy yourself the best equipment and components and start reloading. You are going to make mistakes that could cause serious damage to yourself, the guy next to you and your firearm.
We all make mistakes over time. You can read all the books and watch all the videos and still not understand everything you are trying to accomplish. Liken this to an old saying, "All college and no knowledge." You don't begin to learn the right way till you have had the experience.
My hope is that Darwin does not raise his ugly head and look in Mr. Wicks direction.
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SSchnd
Silver $$ Contributor
Kracken has good advice on the Bushing Size. I have .288. .289, .290. On my Lapua cases for 6.5 CM the .289 bushing is the sweet spot. Gives me 1-2 thousandths neck tension. You can get the neck gauges too to check the I.D. of the case neck. One can also use a mandrel die to perfect the I.D. should you wish. The bushing has more or less taken me away from using the mandrel.
They make some slick bits.
MATCH GRADE - Case Mouth and Neck Tension Gage 6.0 / .243 / 6.5 / .264
Match Case mouth gauge or gage for determining neck tension of 6mm BR, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, 6mm Dasher etc. Match grade.
ballistictools.com
I agree with you 100%. Just because someone can read does not mean they understand.
Reading some of Mr Wick's statements has raised an eyebrow or two.
Infrequent Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I am starting to reload 222 Rem. I have found it useful to take a NOS 222Rem unfired cartridge and measure the hell out of it. And compare it to specs like OAL, neck dia etc. Hornady makes excellent 6.5 CM match that you could shoot and use as a starting point for your reloading specs. And get some high quality calipers. For sale here and on ebay. Mitutoyo and Starrett. You probably have calipers already.
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Some of us that have been playing this reloading game for 50 or more years forget what it is like to be starting from a blank slate. I know I try to be gentle in these situations, but we assume a certain level of knowledge is present when it may or may not be.
People that are new to it without having a family history of involvement really are starting from a point many of us were in when our age was a single digit. Forums have replaced things like the old gun magazines we grew up with. Without a steady diet of articles extolling the latest and greatest cartridges in great detail, a lot of the language we speak is pretty obscure. The articles on the home page here are a great place to start one's education.
People that are new to it without having a family history of involvement really are starting from a point many of us were in when our age was a single digit. Forums have replaced things like the old gun magazines we grew up with. Without a steady diet of articles extolling the latest and greatest cartridges in great detail, a lot of the language we speak is pretty obscure. The articles on the home page here are a great place to start one's education.
Simply different 6.5MM cartridges.
6.5 CM Origin History
"Dave Emary went back to Hornady and collaborated with Joe Thielen on the project, and at SHOT Show in 2006, he gave DeMille an unmarked piece of brass. The yet-to-be-named round was based on the forgettable .30 T/C, whose only legacy will be the cartridges it has spawned."
“The .30 T/C was still pretty new then, and going to a 6.5 was just logical,” Dave Emary.
6.5mm Creedmoor - Wikipedia
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@Mr Wick , if going DIY on all of this, I would highly recommend acquiring several different reloading manuals and reading through (several times) the prefatory chapters in each. Typically, these contain quite good overviews of all of the major aspects of reloading ... along with the primary potholes a new reloader can unwittingly step in when attempting the process.
Still nothing can replace long-term experience in a discipline. Spending a good amount of time with a quality experienced reloader will teach you much of what isn't found in the books and videos.
Some suggestions:
Whether you select one or more of the manuals listed above, or several others, I would at this point seek out the most-complete overviews of the reloading process and relevant precautions and warnings you can find. Then, re-read each of them. And then take time to digest what you've read. Quite simply because the information is vital to understanding how many things can go wrong if done without such precautions. (Things that the typical long-time reloader can help you understand and appreciate.)
Myself, I aided a buddy several decades ago with his reloading, and took a couple of seminars with an experienced reloader who was doing classes to assist new reloaders. But only in the past couple of years have I gotten back into it, with my own equipment, manuals, and with the benefit of 30yrs of shooting.
There is plenty to miss, when picking up any new discipline or skill. But, as many have pointed out, missing some of the precautions here, with reloading, can in some cases turn deadly. It's why many of the members have been so adamant, even vehement, in warning of these things. It's worth appreciating the remarks in the sense they were intended: safe reloading and practices.
Caution is due, here.
Still nothing can replace long-term experience in a discipline. Spending a good amount of time with a quality experienced reloader will teach you much of what isn't found in the books and videos.
Some suggestions:
- RCBS Introduction to Handloading (click, pdf)
- Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading, 11th Edition -- the first 100 pages.
- Modern Reloading, 2nd Edition, by Richard Lee -- first 150 pages.
- Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook -- first 115 pages.
- Sierra Rifle and Handgun Loading Data, 6th Edition -- first 160 pages.
Whether you select one or more of the manuals listed above, or several others, I would at this point seek out the most-complete overviews of the reloading process and relevant precautions and warnings you can find. Then, re-read each of them. And then take time to digest what you've read. Quite simply because the information is vital to understanding how many things can go wrong if done without such precautions. (Things that the typical long-time reloader can help you understand and appreciate.)
Myself, I aided a buddy several decades ago with his reloading, and took a couple of seminars with an experienced reloader who was doing classes to assist new reloaders. But only in the past couple of years have I gotten back into it, with my own equipment, manuals, and with the benefit of 30yrs of shooting.
There is plenty to miss, when picking up any new discipline or skill. But, as many have pointed out, missing some of the precautions here, with reloading, can in some cases turn deadly. It's why many of the members have been so adamant, even vehement, in warning of these things. It's worth appreciating the remarks in the sense they were intended: safe reloading and practices.
Caution is due, here.
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10XSHOOTER
Gold $$ Contributor
Take a loaded factory round. Measure neck diameter with good calipers. minus .002 for your bushing size.
As you get different brass. you made need to go up or down .001 in bushing size.
As you get different brass. you made need to go up or down .001 in bushing size.
spitfire_er
Silver $$ Contributor
I'll play devil advocate here a little. When I first started reloading about 20 years ago, I didn't have anyone to help me. I worked with an old guy that knew his stuff so I could ask generic questions, but I didn't know what I didn't know. I bought a RCBS reloading kit, the nicest one they sold, was $350-400. Read as much as I could read through the manual, bought a Hornady manual because I then purchased some 30 cal 150 gr SST's. Found some Reloader 22, 300 WM RCBS die set, LRM primers, and some Winchester brass for my Beneli R1 in 300 Win Mag.
Sat everything up and went to town. I stayed within the middle of the road published data and presto, had my first batch of hand loaded ammo. I ended up shooting my first Antelope in MT the following season with that ammo.
A couple years later I was lucky enough to meet my now wife whose grandfather was a benchrest shooter and custom rifle builder, so my learning curve was real fast after that.
I think for the average person, reloading on their own is definitely do-able, but on the other side of it, getting help from people with knowledge speeds that whole learning curve up exponentially.
My reloads today are top notch match quality, but I didn't know 95% of everything I know today when I first started. It truly is a rabbit hole!
Sat everything up and went to town. I stayed within the middle of the road published data and presto, had my first batch of hand loaded ammo. I ended up shooting my first Antelope in MT the following season with that ammo.
A couple years later I was lucky enough to meet my now wife whose grandfather was a benchrest shooter and custom rifle builder, so my learning curve was real fast after that.
I think for the average person, reloading on their own is definitely do-able, but on the other side of it, getting help from people with knowledge speeds that whole learning curve up exponentially.
My reloads today are top notch match quality, but I didn't know 95% of everything I know today when I first started. It truly is a rabbit hole!
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6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
Good story to hear. We all need to remember this.
Since my last post, I have done considerable reading. 21st Century Reloading, Lyman's book, Lee's book, and Hornaday's book. I understand the need for the right amount of shoulder bump. I measured a seated round and subtracted .002,.003, and .004. I then purchased 3 SAC bushings for my Redding Type S Full Length Sizer Die. I understand the importance of bullet seating and purchased a Hornaday OAL guage with a 6.5 CM modified case to measure my round to the lands. I understand the need for proper neck tension, so I ordered a 21st Century Mandrel Die with 6.5mm Caliber Specific Expander Mandrels. (I will, of course, remove the expander ball from the Redding FL Die as well as the primer decapping pin) I also have a headspace comparator and bullet comparator and ordered Hornaday's Concentricity Guage to eliminate bullet runout. There is more, but I'm not going to write an essay. Will I just lay all this stuff out on my bench and reload the moment the last product arrives? No. Will I continue to read and watch videos before delving in? Yes.
I also now understand the difference between 6.5 CM, Grendel, PRC, and Norma to name a few.
I also now understand the difference between 6.5 CM, Grendel, PRC, and Norma to name a few.
6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
Stay the course and you will do great!
I feel very blessed. I'm 71 years old. My late father taught me to load when I was in my mid teens. But things sure have changed over 50 plus years!
I feel very blessed. I'm 71 years old. My late father taught me to load when I was in my mid teens. But things sure have changed over 50 plus years!
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dgeesaman
Gold $$ Contributor
Now we get to hear people chime in on how the Hornady comparators don’t work. Feel free to ignore them; mine work great. The trick for repeatable results with my bullet seating length tool is to push the bullet firmly into the lands to make that measurement. The bullet will stick in the rifling but it taps out easily with a brass rod. Then I test seating depth using that as my max jam and only go shorter. This method of measurement is consistent to within .001” and is fast.
That said, you do have many new tools on your bench and it will take time to learn them all. Fun project provided you aren’t in a rush to build ammo immediately.
That said, you do have many new tools on your bench and it will take time to learn them all. Fun project provided you aren’t in a rush to build ammo immediately.
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