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Eric Cortina and Hornady

Those of you on the political sidebar. Please do some research. The largest shareholders in the largest publicly traded companies are Black Rock and Vanguard. (In all industries that affect our day to day). Vanguard is the largest shareholder in Black Rock. Who owns Vanguard???? What happened to their wealth and power during the pandemic? Who are their front men???

Most of the people in government work for them. The public needs to fix that problem. Look at all the people they have suicided. What was JFK'S last speech about? How do central banks, like the federal reserve, work? Are the central banks government entities? (Spoiler, the answer is absolutely not.) Who owns the central banks?

The answers to these questions are pretty prevalent if you look around. We need to stop discussing politics as if it is this party vs that party or this candidate vs that candidate. It is the elite vs the public. I don't mean the elite as in the rich entrepreneurs either. I mean the royal ruling class. We need to find ways to put people in politics that will fight for the public interests.

We are discussing American politicians, so I would assume we are all (in the political sidebar) Americans. It happens to be a free country and you are free to discuss whatever you choose. However, before you start preaching to people about how things work, you would be wise to do a little research and understand the world we actually live in and how things happen.

Gates, Schwab, Clinton, Biden, Bush, Soros, etc. are the front men for the global cabal. Their ngos and nfps are covers for the ngos and nfps of the actual wealthy elite that butter their bread.

Discussing what Biden can fix or not is irrelevant, as he is not making any decisions except what flavor of ice cream he is going to have. It is debatable with Trump, but many believe that was the globalists' one big mistake. They underestimated him and he got into office instead of Clinton. If that is true then he was actually running the country until covid. If not, he is just another puppet.

I understand that many (but fewer people all the time) place absolute trust in the media. It is reasonable to expect that you can believe the news. If you are a cynic, you will also look into who owns almost all media outlets in the world. That means they control them, and what we hear, see, and read from almost every media outlet.

Please, do some research to understand how the system has been hijacked and is working for them, not us. They want us to focus on and fight over which senator is the biggest dumb ass or which president made the most mistakes. As long as we keep letting them run the play it means nothing. More people have to understand what they are doing and stop playing into their hand. With all do respect, it is obvious that those involved in a petty argument about which president screwed up the economy, do not have a good grasp on who pulls the puppet strings.
 
This has to be the most entertaining thread I’ve seen in years. I’m a small shop that tends to cater to LR and short range BR shooters. It’s been my experience that the very best shooters in all shooting disciplines are the ones who fire the most rounds and accumulate the most knowledge of their equipment and shooting discipline. In the past ten years I’ve seen more and more competitive shooters fall into “intellectual paralysis” when it comes to tuning and winning. Meaning they get so wrapped up in some sort of method to tune or wind read that they can no longer progress to the point of success and winning. I personally never reached any high level of shooting stature nor, do I have my own YouTube channel or Podcast. But I have built benchrest and F Class rifles for folks that immediately went to the Cortina method of load development and loading practice. Every single one of them was limited in their capability to find a competitive tune because of the method used. It’s has already been mentioned many, many times and without hard data or statistic backing that the best load combination isn’t always the lowest SD or ES. I have experienced this multiple times and taken the rifle to win at 1K benchrest. There could be pages and pages of litigation over who used the best ballistic software or data processing software. Which is where this thread has gone with several very intelligent site members who talk way above my level. All this to say that in my experience the very best competitive shooters I know go out and shoot lots of bullets/powder/seating depth tests in many different atmospheric conditions to arrive at match winning reliable accuracy. Those are the guys I want to talk to. Those are the ones I want to ask questions. Most of them don’t have a YouTube channel. Most of them don’t have a Podcast. Another member posted early in this thread that it’s all about the money when YouTube channels are created. That’s exactly what’s going on with Cortina and Hornady.
 
Another member posted early in this thread that it’s all about the money when YouTube channels are created. That’s exactly what’s going on with Cortina and Hornady.
I believe you are referencing a post that I made. There are some YouTube publishers that have pure motivation but Mr. Cortina very obviously has some conflicts of interest. He gets paid by clicks. What better way to get clicks than to publish something that is controversial, then cross reference to a forum like this, and watch the number of views increase exponentially. One that comes to mind is the “stop chasing seating depth video.” Chasing seating depth was, and still is, a valid tuning option and has been since before he was born. That technique isn’t for all disciplines, but where it can be used it works. There are two possibilities. One is that he doesn’t realize it works, and shouldn’t be publishing on that subject. Or two, he knows it works and is simply posting something controversial to increase views. Either way it’s a disservice to the shooting community.
 
I believe you are referencing a post that I made. There are some YouTube publishers that have pure motivation but Mr. Cortina very obviously has some conflicts of interest. He gets paid by clicks. What better way to get clicks than to publish something that is controversial, then cross reference to a forum like this, and watch the number of views increase exponentially. One that comes to mind is the “stop chasing seating depth video.” Chasing seating depth was, and still is, a valid tuning option and has been since before he was born. That technique isn’t for all disciplines, but where it can be used it works. There are two possibilities. One is that he doesn’t realize it works, and shouldn’t be publishing on that subject. Or two, he knows it works and is simply posting something controversial to increase views. Either way it’s a disservice to the shooting community.
If you will notice Erik didn't post that on here and hasn't had anything to say on here. It's the people that worry about everything that is racking up his free advertising on here. You are helping him live the dream.
 
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If you will notice Eric didn't post that on here and hasn't had anything to say on here. It's the people that worry about everything that is racking up his free advertising on here. You are helping him live the dream.
Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. However, considering the title to this thread, I don’t think my post will have much of an effect. I did a brief search and couldn’t find his name in the membership list.
 
Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. However, considering the title to this thread, I don’t think my post will have much of an effect. I did a brief search and couldn’t find his name in the membership list.
You have to spell his name with a K.


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My issue with Erik Cortina is that some of his arguments are made seemingly purely on observational/anecdotal evidence (which is very low quality evidence).

An example of this was when he went on the Modern Day Sniper podcast and they talked briefly about Tuners. EC was very dismissive of those that brought up statistical analysis, and his argument was essentially "well guys in BR have won with them, therefore they must work". Which, IMO, is a very weak argument.

I think he means well, but he has very strong opinions on matters and doesn't always have the ability to provide a strong reason for why. He doesn't seem open to hearing alternative ideas or hypothesis' once he has his mind made up. For this reason, I would imagine his forum is an echo chamber of self-confirming rhetoric, where ideas can't truly be challenged. But I've never been there, so in all fairness I could be way off base.

EC seems like a good dude that means well, but can't say I always agree with him or his methods. However I'm very glad he's around and loves to share his knowledge, I think that's a net positive for the shooting world, even if he's not always right.
 
I believe you are referencing a post that I made. There are some YouTube publishers that have pure motivation but Mr. Cortina very obviously has some conflicts of interest. He gets paid by clicks. What better way to get clicks than to publish something that is controversial, then cross reference to a forum like this, and watch the number of views increase exponentially. One that comes to mind is the “stop chasing seating depth video.” Chasing seating depth was, and still is, a valid tuning option and has been since before he was born. That technique isn’t for all disciplines, but where it can be used it works. There are two possibilities. One is that he doesn’t realize it works, and shouldn’t be publishing on that subject. Or two, he knows it works and is simply posting something controversial to increase views. Either way it’s a disservice to the shooting community.
I really don’t want to run down fellow shooters. Truthfully I don’t think any decent members here want to either. But, disinformation is definitely the problem. Being a rifle builder trying to help or guide a customer to the best possible outcome with their investment I get very frustrated when a customer adheres to Cortinas videos or method because it appears he is the only one posting somewhat in depth advanced loading techniques. Leaves me in a position to basically say “you can listen to me, or you can listen to him”. Which doesn’t do any good. If I were starting from scratch again in either BR or F Class I would find the people who are winning and extract as much info as possible. Then, make my own decisions. I have a couple customers who are very successful and they do not have any wild loading/tuning practices that relate to cortinas methods. Same stuff we’ve done for years. When you get to the top level it’s all barrels and bullets Anyway. The rest is just time and money.
 
I really don’t want to run down fellow shooters. Truthfully I don’t think any decent members here want to either. But, disinformation is definitely the problem. Being a rifle builder trying to help or guide a customer to the best possible outcome with their investment I get very frustrated when a customer adheres to Cortinas videos or method because it appears he is the only one posting somewhat in depth advanced loading techniques. Leaves me in a position to basically say “you can listen to me, or you can listen to him”. Which doesn’t do any good. If I were starting from scratch again in either BR or F Class I would find the people who are winning and extract as much info as possible. Then, make my own decisions. I have a couple customers who are very successful and they do not have any wild loading/tuning practices that relate to cortinas methods. Same stuff we’ve done for years. When you get to the top level it’s all barrels and bullets Anyway. The rest is just time and money.
You use different words but the message is the same. I mentored a guy that was new to the accuracy game. He’s not a youngster by any means. He soaked up EC like a sponge. Some of it good info, and some of it blatantly false. Things that were proven tuning methods for decades that he proclaimed to be false. I got a laugh when someone here (maybe further back in this thread) said “I'm waiting in EC to post a video saying that you’re doing something right.” I’ve spent a lot of time helping this new shooter, and my advise to him has been, “You can take what EC says as gospel, or you can test what he says and find out what the real truth is.” After three or four years, I think he’s starting to see where the truth lives.
Advise to new or young shooters. Learn the facts at the school of experience. Do your own testing and you will be better for it.
 
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I think Erik brings out some good points with his work however as mentioned it pays to test things for ourselves. For instance he says don't neck size, don't chase the lands, clean often on a schedule, and the list goes on. But, until we try these matters of dos & dont's we will never know what works best for us.
 
^^^ Wish I could like that 100 times! I love the part about test for yourself! Not everything from one discipline is appropriate in another.
I had an interesting testing experience this afternoon. Decided to do a similar test to what Hornady/Bryan Litz did and used 100 rounds of some old ammo i had on hand to rip off two 50 round groups just for kicks. Stacked up 5 targets on top of each other to make a composite group of 3, 5, 10, 25, and 50 shots.

Long story short, how I view the accuracy of that system before and after that little experiment is completely different :D
 
Nope. Listen more closely next time. They were discussing basic statistical probability, where (assuming things follow a 'normal' or Gaussian distribution curve) ~68% of the values fall within +/- 1 SD of the mean, ~95% fall within +/- 2 SD, and ~99.7% fall within +/- 3 SD. They were *trying* to communicate basic stats to the average shooter in terms they (the shooter) could relate with. Way too many people just jumped in with pre-conceived notions and completely blew past the foundational concepts.

Then you have other basic statistical concepts, like the central limit theorem, and the standard error of the mean (SEM).
Many shooters would benefit from reading an introductory book on statistics or take a course in community college where if you are lucky you may have to complete a project using your firearm to shoot a bunch of groups and make a statistical analysis and understand the concepts of analysis;
 
Right, I may NOT understand some of the terminology nor what it means and no I am not arguing that part at all. BUT, what I am arguing is what I see on my targets and what has worked for me in the past to develop my loads. And I still say that if I extended my 10 shot groups out to 10 groups I do not think I will shoot a group that measures 1/2 MOA. And nothing Hornady or anybody else tells me will convince me I'm wrong. To bring the big word "statistically" in I can say that rifle has not shot a 1/2 MOA group yet @ 100 yds.
It may be the Litz or Hornady may not have tested a rifle that shoots 1/4moa average loads and it may be that 1/4moa average rifles have very small SD but then again has anyone shot 1000 rounds in a '1/4average moa' gun and not shot a 1/2moa group to find that the average is not 1/4moa.
 
I had an interesting testing experience this afternoon. Decided to do a similar test to what Hornady/Bryan Litz did and used 100 rounds of some old ammo i had on hand to rip off two 50 round groups just for kicks. Stacked up 5 targets on top of each other to make a composite group of 3, 5, 10, 25, and 50 shots.

Long story short, how I view the accuracy of that system before and after that little experiment is completely different :D
I'm sure many of us would sure like to see some pictures of your targets or the data harvested from your tests!
 

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