22lr Action discussion

[GerryinPa]

Someone please fill me in on the difference between my Bergara14r action and a vudoo or rimx or Turbo or 2500x etc. When you get into the larger class 22 rimfire actions, how much of the accuracy is generated by the action? I'm not referring to cycling, triggers or feeding etc. yet.

The reason I'm bringing this up is I am considering a new build and using my b14r as a donor versus buying a new action at $1500+. I guess the question would be if you put a new barrel in the Bergara versus any of the other high-end actions would you get the same result all things being equal?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
G.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Someone please fill me in on the difference between my Bergara14r action and a vudoo or rimx or Turbo or 2500x etc. When you get into the larger class 22 rimfire actions, how much of the accuracy is generated by the action? I'm not referring to cycling, triggers or feeding etc. yet.

The reason I'm bringing this up is I am considering a new build and using my b14r as a donor versus buying a new action at $1500+. I guess the question would be if you put a new barrel in the Bergara versus any of the other high-end actions would you get the same result all things being equal?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
G.

IMO any good solid action that can provide consistent ignition will work. it is the barrel that will determine how it will shoot.
a poor shooting barrel will make any top-quality action look like a dud.

Lee

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Im in the camp that ignition is the most important thing on a rimfire, and to get that youll need a well massaged custom action.

 

[1Merlin]

It's all about the barrel.

 

[PNW Skipper]

Since you mention actions like 2500 and Turbo, one assumes you are building for disciplines like ARA, IR 50/50, USBR, etc. If so, most of the top competitors seem to focus on the barrel and the ammo as the key determinants of how competitive a rifle will be in competition.

But that presumes an action for which the ignition is reliable and barrel squareness to the action and concentricity between barrel and action is essentially a given. That isn't always the case with factory actions.

Folks that have built successful rifles on factory actions often have had to have a gunsmith work over factory actions like Win 52's and Rem 37's to "blueprint" or "true" them. I suspect you might want to figure on doing that if using the Bergara action. For the disciplines you are contemplating building for, action stiffness contributes to accuracy and rifles are therefore usually single shot. You need to understand that a repeater action is a compromise in that respect. Are you going to keep it original, or sleeve/plug the magazine cutout and build/fit a loading tray? Additionally, many shooters are finding that the ergonomics (assuming right handed shooter) of a right bolt, left port (RBLP) configuration is an advantage shooting from the bench, something you give up if you reuse your Bergara action.

Another consideration... while the barrel and ammo generally determine how well the rifle can shoot, the trigger and stock will determine how well you can shoot up to its capability. Few trainer triggers are going to be truly competitive in rimfire benchrest disciplines today. The Bergara's 700 pattern allows you to fit a good selection of low trigger pull match triggers, so that's a plus. Just make sure you plan on fitting the action into a stock designed for the discipline(s) you plan to shoot. There are good reasons for the differences between benchrest, precision tactical, sporter, prone, and 3P stocks.

Every build involves tradeoffs, and some darned fine competition rifles have been built using commercial actions. I hope this helps you identify the decisions you will need to consider, whichever route you go.

 

[VLNBYR]

Get a Shilen or Muller barrel, a Jewell trigger and a good stock. Have the work done by those who know what they are doing and you will be OK.

 

[GerryinPa]

Thanks for the replies everybody it's all great information! It looks like I left out some info so let me try to fill in the gaps. This build will be for ARA open class benchrest competition. I'm considering using the Bergara because the copy I have is an incredible shooter for a factory setup. To give you all an idea of its capability I finished 18 ARA open class targets last year and My AGG is 2175. For my first season trying small bore benchrest I'm very happy. from the bench at 50 yards this rifle groups 3's or better and had hundred yards 7's or better. My concern is, I don't see many open class rigs with 18-in barrels.

At this point my Bergara has a jewel hvr trigger and I did a little bolt work to smooth out machine marks, and the ramps. I also made a tuner to get rid of vertical.

What I'm thinking is picking up a Shillen ratchet, a match reamer, and setting it up for this action and see if I can improve on that. By the way I have a small shop here at home with a small lathe and a mill, so I can do my own work. VLNBYR took the words right out of my mouth!
Thanks again for all the input,

G.

 

[VLNBYR]

2175 agg last year was in the top 30 in the nation. Improve on that and get the minimum targets, etc. who cares what action you have.

 

[PNW Skipper]

I finished 18 ARA open class targets last year and My AGG is 2175.

G.

Don't dispose of the takeoff barrel right away!

 

[Schutzen2]

I haven't seen anyone mention it so I'll just throw it out there. The Bergara action has metric threads. Maybe you already knew and can deal with that.

 

[GerryinPa]

haven't seen anyone mention it so I'll just throw it out there. The Bergara action has metric threads. Maybe you already knew and can deal with that.

Yup Schutzen2, I sure did see that on Kenny's video. It might be time to go out in the shop and try to set up my lathe gears and see if I can copy that thread.

Thanks everyone,
G

 

[Eagle1899]

RimX only feeds from the magazine. It can not be single loaded directly into the chamber.

 

[butchlambert]

OK, a similiar situation. A friend has a CZ457. Add up what he has invested. Custom BR stock, pillar bed, Shilen ratchet barrel, tuner, scar trigger, and the labor for all of this.
Wouldn't he have been ahead to start with a 2500X? I don't see the Begera or CZ receivers in the equip. list

 

[Schutzen2]

haven't seen anyone mention it so I'll just throw it out there. The Bergara action has metric threads. Maybe you already knew and can deal with that.

Yup Schutzen2, I sure did see that on Kenny's video. It might be time to go out in the shop and try to set up my lathe gears and see if I can copy that thread.

Thanks everyone,
G

Let us know how it goes please.

 

[Tony K Harper]

It's all about the barrel.

Let me give some food for thought. Not trying to change minds or opinions but just open up some discussion.

A barrel has no moving parts. A bullet travels through it in the same direction every time. The bore is either good or bad. But whatever it is, it is always the same from shot-to-shot barring a round being stuck or some other object. It does the same thing to each and every round that passes through it.

We know all bullets aren't created equal that is why we lot test to find one that are as close to being equal as we can find. So, they by definition are a variable.

The action contains all the moving parts and either has good consistent ignition or it doesn't. If it doesn't, we can't expect a consistent outcome. (Strikes on target). Because of all of its moving parts it is also a variable.

If you consider the barrel, action, and bullet a system the barrel is the only constant. If we aren't getting all the shots where we want them where would be the most likely place to find the problem?

TKH

 

[1Merlin]

Obviously the shooter is the biggest variable. Or is this not what you expected to see?

 

[Rook 6]

OK, a similiar situation. A friend has a CZ457. Add up what he has invested. Custom BR stock, pillar bed, Shilen ratchet barrel, tuner, scar trigger, and the labor for all of this.
Wouldn't he have been ahead to start with a 2500X? I don't see the Begera or CZ receivers in the equip. list

What Butch said is mighty important. No doubt a worked B14R will get the job done. But if you ever sell it, it’s still a B14R. A custom action wouldn’t be much different in cost to what would be sunk in a worked B14R, so it would make more sense potentially to go that route.

 

[JimSC]

If you consider the barrel, action, and bullet a system the barrel is the only constant. If we aren't getting all the shots where we want them where would be the most likely place to find the problem?

TKH

Just my 2 cents worth but in my ARA journey I am finding that ammo choice + bench technique + wind reading all have the biggest impacts on my scores. Do some measurement on various ammos and you will discover why some ammo is only $3 a box and other ammo costs $25 a box. Wind flags are a must have most days and you have to work at developing a consistent hold.

With that said I have seen some really good shooters go home with their heads hung low after trying ARA unlimited target with their Anshutz or Vudoo. If I ever decide to move to unlimited I will be looking for a Turbo or 2500 custom build. I doubt if that will ever happen though, I am having far too much fun in Factory class

Again just my experience, others mileage may vary

 

[Tony K Harper]

Obviously the shooter is the biggest variable. Or is this not what you expected to see?

1Merlin,

Quite right but in my post, I said the system was the barrel, bullets and action.
Was only trying to deal with those factors. This has nothing to do with the shooter, the wind conditions, the bench you drew, or your technique. All are very big factors, but not the question.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

TKH

 

[MrG52D]

Just my 2 cents worth but in my ARA journey I am finding that ammo choice + bench technique + wind reading all have the biggest impacts on my scores. Do some measurement on various ammos and you will discover why some ammo is only $3 a box and other ammo costs $25 a box. Wind flags are a must have most days and you have to work at developing a consistent hold.

With that said I have seen some really good shooters go home with their heads hung low after trying ARA unlimited target with their Anshutz or Vudoo. If I ever decide to move to unlimited I will be looking for a Turbo or 2500 custom build. I doubt if that will ever happen though, I am having far too much fun in Factory class

Again just my experience, others mileage may vary

And right there is the reason a lot of us shoot. Win, lose or whatever, as long as you're having fun doing it. We all prefer winning to losing, but if I can stay in the upper mid pack, I'm good with it. The sanctioned RFBR matches are a gauge, to see just where you stack up in that world. If you're really serious about winning and you're not sure of your skill level, then getting the best you can buy is the way to go. If your looking at it as fun and something to do, then use your Anschutz, 40X or CZ and have fun. I'm in the have fun category.