Seems to me it was a bit of a test to see if Hornady and other ammo mfgrs, could force a change in the gun industry, in building a gun properly, to suit the round. The Remington analogies seem pretty valid, WW has a few duds too. Granted, the bullets we have now and some of the shooting disciplines didn't exist in the 50's and 60's, so the demand for some of the current stuff wasn't there at the time, they didn't think in terms of promoting in the way we do today, what they had, worked.. Why is it so difficult to find older cartridges with faster twist barrels these days in a factory gun, is one example. Why did they not do more with developing beltless cases, that were wildcatted for 50yrs plus that I've known of, they knew they were out there, and phase out the older ones? A lot of companies seem to live on reputation, and sometimes they need to be shook up a little, in some cases a lot.
Why did Hornady make the 6.5 Creedmoor?
- Thread starter jkirk
- Start date
Both, the 6 XC and 6.5 Creedmoor are VERY Accurate, Cartridges, IF put in,.. a "Good" Rifle !
I have some personal experience on,.. this ( as now, I own,.. both ).
A guy, could do,.. worse !
Since My Grandson, "abscounded" with, my very accurate, Tikka T-3, .243 Win.,.. I was FORCED into replacing that, awesome "Deer Rifle" with,.. a 6.5 Creedmoor,.. Yup,.. "Forced",.. I tell you !
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Actually that was answered by Hornady in a 6MM ARC video. There are a series of cartridges that were popular but by the time they were standardized there were multiple specifications that reduced their ability to create improved ammunition.
By creating not only the only specifications but the SAAMI approved specifications they had the ability to create a higher level of quality in the brass and assembled cartridges.
I don't have one but I have heard many times that the 6.5 Creedmoor is easy to build rifles for and to load for. Hornady technicians point to these reasons as to why the Creedmoor class of cartridges have a reputation for accuracy.
I would imagine it's like Toby Keith only with guns. A lady was telling Toby that he could not ake a hit out of anything he had to have a good subject and story. They made a bet and she got to choose and she picked the red solo cup. Hornaday- Reminton really screwed up on the 260. somebody/anybody- like you could do better? Yea we can on the same cartridge.
That one never gets old!
6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
I think it does...!
Because it is so eminently reasonable. I think they introduced it foreseeing that we are entering the age of cartridge moderation, now in full swing. It’s simply following the long trend line in guns and ammunition to physically downsize and simplify, that the short action magnums started popularizing 20 years back.
In the 90’s and at the millennial turn, cartridges were experiencing their equivalent of the late 60’s for car enthusiasts. When the costly high compression 7 liters disappeared, a greater appreciation for how far the idea of smooth 3.0 sixes could be taken, developed over time, and that’s the Creedmoor.
The 90’s and post era saw the brand new 338 LM, the BIGGER 30-378, the RUM and all the Lazzeroni cases introduced. There were a dozen newish 50 BMG cal rifles available, the S&W X-Frame, dessert eagle with its latest, the 50 AE that S&W followed, and even the Cheytac was rolling out. Powder was cheap and plentiful.
We are way past those days, now. None of those peak of exuberance flourishes in what we do recreationally would even be aspirational profit centers today for a company. Governor Schwarzenegger terminated the 50 cal BMG in California, and that cast a legal uncertainty in the pursuit of big guns everywhere, and quelled corporate level enthusiasm.
The Creedmoor is the opposite of a big, specialized, impractical gun. It’s successful for its ability to force them to justify why they exist, and indeed it baited comparisons to the 300 WM right off the bat.
In the 90’s and at the millennial turn, cartridges were experiencing their equivalent of the late 60’s for car enthusiasts. When the costly high compression 7 liters disappeared, a greater appreciation for how far the idea of smooth 3.0 sixes could be taken, developed over time, and that’s the Creedmoor.
The 90’s and post era saw the brand new 338 LM, the BIGGER 30-378, the RUM and all the Lazzeroni cases introduced. There were a dozen newish 50 BMG cal rifles available, the S&W X-Frame, dessert eagle with its latest, the 50 AE that S&W followed, and even the Cheytac was rolling out. Powder was cheap and plentiful.
We are way past those days, now. None of those peak of exuberance flourishes in what we do recreationally would even be aspirational profit centers today for a company. Governor Schwarzenegger terminated the 50 cal BMG in California, and that cast a legal uncertainty in the pursuit of big guns everywhere, and quelled corporate level enthusiasm.
The Creedmoor is the opposite of a big, specialized, impractical gun. It’s successful for its ability to force them to justify why they exist, and indeed it baited comparisons to the 300 WM right off the bat.
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You make some good points, modern, efficient, small and functional is what we're seeing in today's products. The 6 and 6.5 Creedmore, 6 ARC, 6,5 Grendel to mention a few.
Yeah, I don't have one though, now their bullets, much different story. I should say that grabbing that IMI factory .338 round for a picture, of what is Lapaua's flagship cartridge, was not on purpose (but they do shoot!). My brass is blue and 338-LPA is still one of my license plates, but do make us brass again, please.
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Hornady cartridge god's makes something you better shoot it or there will be hell to pay!
needmore is a okay hunting and target cartridge if you are a young person old hunter like me
or a small shooter it's great. there are better cartridges to do the job. I just can't stand the stupid
hype it's not a 500 yd elk gun. that so many of guys think it is. and why a grown man in his
prime would shoot a pip squeak cartridge that i'll never know. the new Hornady 7prc looks
interesting. the case capacity looks good. neck up to 308 i think almost perfect. it would be in long action
bullets seated long. I think it would be a great long range elk cartridge. RICK
needmore is a okay hunting and target cartridge if you are a young person old hunter like me
or a small shooter it's great. there are better cartridges to do the job. I just can't stand the stupid
hype it's not a 500 yd elk gun. that so many of guys think it is. and why a grown man in his
prime would shoot a pip squeak cartridge that i'll never know. the new Hornady 7prc looks
interesting. the case capacity looks good. neck up to 308 i think almost perfect. it would be in long action
bullets seated long. I think it would be a great long range elk cartridge. RICK
When this subject comes up, I always wonder what a satisfactory level of success is for the gun community. Remington gets endlessly beat up if a round is a flop. Hornady gets endlessly beat up for a widely accepted introduction. It would be nice if the 2A crowd could just come up with some guidelines for manufacturers to follow as to how successful a new round can be in order keep their panties from getting so wadded up about this nonsense
There's a reason Remington has made so many great cartridges flop.
They hype up a cartridge, build a bunch of rifles for it and then promptly stop making ammo and brass for it.
Take the 17 Fireball as an example. While they are building and abandoning it they also decide to kill off the 17 Remington and the 221 Fireball at the same time.
They've done this with others too and it's just stupid.
Lapua sure isn’t any too eager, whatsoever to write the name Hornady, on anything I have ever seen.
Hornady very well may not append its name to cartridges it designed and submitted to SAMMI, but Lapua sure isn’t going to put Hornady on any Creedmoor or PRC brass descriptions or labels.
I have kind of waited curiously to see how the new 7/6.5 PRC’s origin, embraced by some highly discriminating top shooters, would be addressed or even mentioned, as this cartridge originated with Hornady, like the 7 and 300 did, and well, they just don’t.
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I have to ask, why would anyone want to see the gun mfg. stay open? I mean. the 7.5 Swiss and 6.5 Sweed, have been around the longest and they do everything we need! The 6.5 Sweed will do anything the .260 will do and more. The .22 Hornet has the varmints covered. Is the .308 worthless, because the .300 Savage beat it to the table. Do we really need anything other than a Mauser for a bolt action? Nearly everything since is just a copy. Does anyone wonder if the gun owners in Canada are bitching because they have redundant rounds? Sorry but these posts are some of the dumbest posts I see. Be thankful that we have a choice to buy or not to buy what ever we want, for now. I can't wait to see peoples reaction when the .25 CM is on the shelf.
How well does the 6.5 fit in a short action?
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
Longer story behind the development of the 6.5 Creedmore. Lifted from Outdoor life article.
The 6.5 Creedmoor was born out of a gripe session between one frustrated shooter and his friend. The shooter was Dennis DeMille, a legend in the world of High Power Rifle competition. The friend was Dave Emary, senior ballistician at Hornady Manufacturing. The date was August 2005, and the location was the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio.
“It was during service rifle week. Dennis and I were sharing a condo. At the end of one day we were sitting and talking, and he told me he was getting frustrated with the 6XC,” Emary says. The 6XC, though it had been winning matches, was still a wildcat, without any published reloading data. Reloaders hadn’t worked out the kinks yet, and their ammo was frequently blowing primers and breaking extractors.
Those shooters turned to DeMille to complain and ask for help—sometimes in between strings of fire while he was competing—since the company he worked for was the exclusive distributor of the rifles chambered in 6XC.
“I went back to the condo that evening and told Dave I was ready to pack up and go home,” DeMille says. Instead, Emary persuaded him to stay, asking DeMille to think about everything he wanted in the ultimate cartridge for across-the-course shooting, as High Power is also known. The next morning, DeMille gave Emary his list. (DeMille went on to win one of his two champion crowns in High Power that year, by the way.)
DeMille came up with seven requirements. The hypothetical cartridge had to:
1. Be magazine length for the rapid-fire strings in competition.
2. Have light recoil, much less than a .308, for rapid fire and general shooter comfort.
3. Shoot flat, with an accurate, high B.C. bullet.
4. Promote good barrel life.
5. Use readily available components, including powder, so that it could be easily replicated.
6. Have the reloading recipe listed on the box.
7. Be produced in quantities sufficient to meet demand.
With those guidelines in hand, Emary went back to Hornady and got to work. He collaborated with Joe Thielen on the project, and at SHOT Show in 2006, he gave DeMille an unmarked piece of brass. The yet-to-be-named round was based on the forgettable .30 T/C, whose only legacy will be the cartridges it has spawned.
“The .30 T/C was still pretty new then, and going to a 6.5 was just logical,” Emary says. “You absolutely cannot beat the aero ballistic performance of 6.5 bullets if they are done right.”
DeMille did some testing with the cartridge and gave feedback on how to improve it. Hornady figured they would call the round the 6.5 DeMille, but DeMille quickly rejected that idea.
“I don’t want to overstate my role in the development of this cartridge,” he says. “It was really Dave and Joe who did all the real work.”
DeMille suggested instead the name Creedmoor, not only based on the company where he was general manager—Creedmoor Sports—but on the history of the location on Long Island, New York, where the first national rifle matches were held.
The following year, in 2007, the 6.5 Creedmoor was launched by Hornady at the SHOT Show, but with no expectation that it would come to dominate the broader hunting and shooting world within just a few years.
The 6.5 Creedmoor was born out of a gripe session between one frustrated shooter and his friend. The shooter was Dennis DeMille, a legend in the world of High Power Rifle competition. The friend was Dave Emary, senior ballistician at Hornady Manufacturing. The date was August 2005, and the location was the National Matches at Camp Perry, Ohio.
“It was during service rifle week. Dennis and I were sharing a condo. At the end of one day we were sitting and talking, and he told me he was getting frustrated with the 6XC,” Emary says. The 6XC, though it had been winning matches, was still a wildcat, without any published reloading data. Reloaders hadn’t worked out the kinks yet, and their ammo was frequently blowing primers and breaking extractors.
Those shooters turned to DeMille to complain and ask for help—sometimes in between strings of fire while he was competing—since the company he worked for was the exclusive distributor of the rifles chambered in 6XC.
“I went back to the condo that evening and told Dave I was ready to pack up and go home,” DeMille says. Instead, Emary persuaded him to stay, asking DeMille to think about everything he wanted in the ultimate cartridge for across-the-course shooting, as High Power is also known. The next morning, DeMille gave Emary his list. (DeMille went on to win one of his two champion crowns in High Power that year, by the way.)
DeMille came up with seven requirements. The hypothetical cartridge had to:
1. Be magazine length for the rapid-fire strings in competition.
2. Have light recoil, much less than a .308, for rapid fire and general shooter comfort.
3. Shoot flat, with an accurate, high B.C. bullet.
4. Promote good barrel life.
5. Use readily available components, including powder, so that it could be easily replicated.
6. Have the reloading recipe listed on the box.
7. Be produced in quantities sufficient to meet demand.
With those guidelines in hand, Emary went back to Hornady and got to work. He collaborated with Joe Thielen on the project, and at SHOT Show in 2006, he gave DeMille an unmarked piece of brass. The yet-to-be-named round was based on the forgettable .30 T/C, whose only legacy will be the cartridges it has spawned.
“The .30 T/C was still pretty new then, and going to a 6.5 was just logical,” Emary says. “You absolutely cannot beat the aero ballistic performance of 6.5 bullets if they are done right.”
DeMille did some testing with the cartridge and gave feedback on how to improve it. Hornady figured they would call the round the 6.5 DeMille, but DeMille quickly rejected that idea.
“I don’t want to overstate my role in the development of this cartridge,” he says. “It was really Dave and Joe who did all the real work.”
DeMille suggested instead the name Creedmoor, not only based on the company where he was general manager—Creedmoor Sports—but on the history of the location on Long Island, New York, where the first national rifle matches were held.
The following year, in 2007, the 6.5 Creedmoor was launched by Hornady at the SHOT Show, but with no expectation that it would come to dominate the broader hunting and shooting world within just a few years.
Best? I don't know but to say that it's the easiest adapted to many actions for peak performance is certainly not a stretch.
The 6.5 x 55 is a great cartridge but to get it to perform at its potential you need a seriously customized action and loads. It's a problem that can only be solved with money. So if you want a 6.5 and you don't have one, and you're forced to neuter the 6.5 x 55 to less than maximum performance you're better off with the Creedmore.
If what you do is hunt and you have a 6.5 x 55 why change?
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