Kinda different neck sizing die question

[abosely]

Necking Lapua .220 Russian to .30 cal and need to make couple dummy rounds to send to Manson Reamers to have reamer made.
Got some cases necked up fine but there is about 0.33 portion of the new formed neck that is about 0.850 larger dia than part of neck I was able to size.

Using Lee 7.62x39 FL sizer and it sizes all but about 0.330 of the neck, this little band is about 0.085 larger diameter than upper portion of neck that is left from .220 shoulder. Don't know if the Lee 7.62x39 collet neck sizer will reach low enough to size this section or not, or what die might I be able to use to size this last bit of neck down. Will be turning necks to 0.12 thickness after sizing necks. This isn't for loading rounds, just for making dummy rounds with couple different bullets that will be using. When get reamer print Neil Jones is going to use reamer print to make neck size and seating dies to load few rounds and fire them 3 times in rifle to get fire formed cases to build final dies using cases fired in chamber.
Cheers, Allen

 

[abosely]

Couldn’t get pics to load from Laptop so
posting pics from phone.



Bullet is CEB Bullets .30 cal 100gr Flat Base Raptor, case on left has been resized in Lee 7.62x39 FL die, dummy round is Raptor seated into sized case at 2.285 COL and case on right has been necked up to .30 cal but not FL sized, but haven’t polished it up yet.
Have box of Speer .30 cal 125gr TNT bullets inbound and will make dummy rounds with them to send to Manson also.


Little closer pic.

The .220 R case is about 0.130 shorter base to shoulder than 7.62x39 case and has about .0130 longer neck, so can’t shove the necked up .220 case far enough into the 7.62x39 FL sizing die to size down to shoulder.

Cheers, Allen

 

[AlNyhus]

It's just like when you neck up 6BR cases to .30....you use a neck turner to remove 'the lump'.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[abosely]

It's just like when you neck up 6BR cases to .30....you use a neck turner to remove 'the lump'.

Good shootin' -Al

I was wondering about that, but since the bulge is concave inside neck, when I turn the neck down to .012 the wall thickness of bulge would be about .070 thinner than the rest of the neck thickness?

If I could run case further into die to size neck down to shoulder, the entire neck would be same .012 thickness.

Not disagreeing, just not sure I understand correctly.
The bulge isn’t a thickening of the neck wall, it’s concave on inside of neck and convex on outside of neck in this spot.

 

[snert]

photo would help

 

[abosely]

photo would help

I have post with couple of photos waiting admin approval.
Posted pics in separate post.

 

[AlNyhus]

Ok...now I savvy what you're trying to do. How about just shortening the die by the amount you need to push the case further in?

Interesting project. -Al

 

[Jackal2016]

I would think a plain old neck sizing die would even the neck surfaces out all the way to the shoulder junction, then any variances in neck thickness could be ironed out with your planned neck turning.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

remove the needed amount from the bottom of your full length die or thin the top of shellhoulder and resize. Most neck dies do not size all the way to shoulder.

Frank

 

[abosely]

I have a Lee collet neck die inbound.
Don’t have a lathe to remove some off bottom of FL die and using Forster Co-Ax press.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Don"t think a collet die will get it all sized. Hope I'm wrong

Frank

 

[abosely]

Don"t think a collet die will get it all sized. Hope I'm wrong

Frank

Would cutting some off the 7.62x39 FL die let the case go further into the die and size the last bit?
Can have it turned off if that would work.

Thought maybe the collet die might have enough neck size length to go further down case neck.

But if cutting the bottom of FL die needed amount would work, it would be worth having it chucked in lathe so have die that sizes all way down to shoulder.

Will be forming a lot of cases so be worth modifying die.

Cheers, Allen

 

[Rat Rifle]

I have a Lee collet neck die inbound.
Don’t have a lathe to remove some off bottom of FL die and using Forster Co-Ax press.

I hate to tell You this, but the LEE Collet Dies of recent years are designed to NOT size the neck all the way down. Some shooter talked them into this and they went with it.

Maybe the RCBS graduated shell holder kit would give You what You need ? But then, depending on Your die, maybe by fully sizing the neck all the way down You would get too much shoulder set back ?

Good Luck

 

[abosely]

I don’t know why I didn’t think of Jim Carsten of JLC Precision, he custom honed and modified dies and makes custom dies.

Spoke with Jim today and sending him the Lee 7.62x39 FL size die and hand full of Lapua .220 Russian cases that have been necked up to .30 cal.

He is going to see what can be done to modify the Lee die so it will size neck down to shoulder.

Be better to have the die modified so it will size necks uniformly to the shoulder.
It’s not really going to be used as actual sizing die as much as final form die forming .220 R brass to final shape.

And will let me size neck all the way to shoulder so I can load dummy rounds to send to Manson reamers to have reamer made for it.

The case body and shoulder will be made to Lapua .220 Russian CIP specs, the neck diameter & length will be custom to fit formed cases.

When cases are ran through form/FL size die they will be neck turned to .012 neck wall thickness.
And then FL sized with Neil Jones’ custom size die and bullets seated with Neils’ custom seating die.

Sending die & cases to Jim tomorrow, I’ll post updates as find out what is figured out.

Cheers, Allen

 

[abosely]

I weighed cases to see what case capacity is for necked up cases.
Without neck’s being final neck sized, don’t think it will change much, but will find out.
The Lapua cases are right at minimum case length. Before loading rounds will trim all cases just to make sure all are exactly same level.

Capacity comes out to 32.5gr water.

The 7.62x39 is supposed to be 35.6ga water capacity. Different brands of cases can vary fair bit. Don’t have any 7.62x39 cases to actually compare.

With the CEB Bullets .308 100gr FB Raptor bullets are pretty long for 100gr bullets at 1.161”
When seated to 2.290” COL they sit into case the base of bullet is right at the case shoulder.

The 7.62x39 is 1.201” vs .220R 1.066” base to shoulder. Since the .135” extra length/volume, would pretty well be taken up by base of bullet, so wouldn’t actually gain any useable capacity.

If any interest I’ll start a thread about the cartridge and forming & loading them.
Be a bit before have gun finished to shoot it & see what it will do.

Not changing/modifying case to gain performance, trying to improve accuracy and such, just a pragmatic way of being able to have Lapua SR primer cases about comparable to 7.62x39. If Lapua 7.62x39 brass had SR primer instead of LR would used Lapua 7.62x39 necked down to .308 and had reamer made that optimized the neck, throat, leade & freebore for .308.

If used .220 R SR brass to make actual 7.62x39 cases would need to fire form to form shoulder forward.135” but wouldn’t gain anything practical from it.

Plus I won’t have to type 7.62x39-.308 bore every time I say what caliber it is. Lol

Need to decide what to call the cartridge so they can put name on reamer and caliber on rifle.

Thinking .308x39, 30x39 or maybe
.308 Russian

Thoughts?

Cheers, Allen

 

[abosely]

This project got put on the back burner for while.
Back workng on the custom Mini 30 build.
I sent Jim Carsten a Lee 7.62x39 FL sizing die, he modified it to take bushings and opened it so the bushing can be adjusted bit deeper so can size down the 220 R with neck expanded to .308.
Worked perfect, can size neck right to neck shoulder junction and nice straight neck.

After sizing necks to shoulder can neck turn them to .012 neck diameter thickness easily.
Manson Reamers is designing my chamber reamer and should have final specs this coming week.
Unfortunately they are quoting 6 months out for reamers currently, hopping wont take that long!

Ordering Krieger SS, Cut Rifling .308 barrel with Accuracy Systems, now have reamer being ordered.
Soon as get rifle back will load fire few rounds and reload and fire them at least 3 times to send cases to Neil Jones for set of his custom dies.

Have an English Walent stock blank inbound from Roger Vardy, it was cut in 1986, so is nice and seasoned! Will be making stock for rifle basically like the factory wood stock but might alter comb height and have little castoff.

Bolt & extractor, receiver and trigger assembly are about that will be original parts and they will be worked over fair bit.



Pretty jazzed about the stock.

In addition to the 30 cal. I made a 6mm and 6.5mm version also. Will have reamer drawings for them also if anyone would like to see them, can call Ray at Manson and order reamer for them.
All 3 cartridges OAL is 2.225" this OAL feeds through Ruger magazines well.

Naming the cartridges 6-220 Russian, 6.5-220 Russian and 30-220 Russian. With new barrel can have 6mm, 6.5mm or 30 cal cartridge that will feed and function through Ruger magazines reliably.
The cases are about .050 shorter base to shoulder than 7.62x38, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC and similar cartridges. With the shorter case to neck length, long bullets can be seated to base of neck and not intrude into case.
All 3 cartridges OAL is 2.225" this OAL feeds through Ruger magazines smoothly.

Will be around 2 to 3 grains less powder than similar cases but will feed from Ruger Mini 30 magazines with modifications or issues, which is the point of them.

Guessing can use any case of the 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6 ARC family of cartridges to form 6-220 R,
6.5-220 R or 30-220 R cartridges with only resizing and little trim.
No fire forming or major case modifications and can have small rifle primers and will feed from stock Ruger Mini 30 magazines.

If anyone is interested, I will make a build thread of the rifle. To me what I'm doing is similar to building a custom rifle using a good Military Mauser action.

Cheers, Allen

 

[BobT]

I for one would love to see a build thread on this rifle!

 

[abosely]

Ok cool, I’ll start a build thread on the main board.
Cheers, Allen