Reloading scales

[PopCharlie]

Looks nice. Are you a competition shooter? Measuring twice is what i do now using two digital scales and a balance beam to check those. But i only doing it to set my progressive then i crank them out like a machine.

I'm not a competitive shooter. I just like shooting tiny groups. It's my hobby. It's fun for me. Competition would take the fun out of it for me. I use a progressive press for my pistol ammo. For my pistols, like you, I set the powder charge with a scale, then load away.
PopCharlie

 

[BobbyJ]

I'm not a competitive shooter. I just like shooting tiny groups. It's my hobby. It's fun for me. Competition would take the fun out of it for me. I use a progressive press for my pistol ammo. For my pistols, like you, I set the powder charge with a scale, then load away.
PopCharlie

Yes me too its a hobby and money pit
I can see how that auto trickle would save some time.

 

[PopCharlie]

Yes me too its a hobby and money pit
I can see how that auto trickle would save some time.

A money pit it is, but if you buy wisely, buy once, cry once. The V4 kit does save time. It also made my process safer and more accurate. And....I am married to a very understanding wife.
PopCharlie

 

[Doom]

Where are you getting this number?
I've always heard +/- 0.02gr for the FX120i and a quick Google search pops up the same info 0.02.

The repeatability is listed as .001g (1 standard deviation) and the the linearity is .002 g. The values in grains are .015 grain and .031 grain. The a 95% Accuracy is the square root of( (2x.015)^2+.002^2 ) plus .02 grains which is the display resolution. That works out to 0.063 grains. The linearity and repeatability data is from the instruction manual.

 

[Bat Rastard]

I'm not a competitive shooter. I just like shooting tiny groups. It's my hobby. It's fun for me. Competition would take the fun out of it for me. I use a progressive press for my pistol ammo. For my pistols, like you, I set the powder charge with a scale, then load away.
PopCharlie

I felt the same way. I have since started competing at the club level. It is even funner. I recommend you try competing. I have learned so much from the other guys, and the comeradery is top-notch.

 

[WildBill3/75]

The repeatability is listed as .001g (1 standard deviation) and the the linearity is .002 g. The values in grains are .015 grain and .031 grain. The a 95% Accuracy is the square root of( (2x.015)^2+.002^2 ) plus .02 grains which is the display resolution. That works out to 0.063 grains. The linearity and repeatability data is from the instruction manual.

Not sure if we are quite tracking quite the same. I just found the manual.
They provided the standard deviation of 0.001 grams.

So we get a +/- of 0.046grains at 3sd on the bell shaped curve, 99.7% of weight measurements.
95.4% of charge weights falling between +/- 0.031grains
And 68.2% of weights falling within +/- 0.015 grains.

From my understanding, linearity of a balance is the ability of the balance to hold accurate measurements throughout the entirety of the weight range of the balance.

Resolution is the value that will show on the display.

 

[Doom]

In the case of the scale the linearity is actually a bias or trueness tolerance. That is the calculated value of weight is within .031grains of the true value. The repeatability is a precision error, that is the variation in the measured weight measured multiple times. Bias error and precision error are combined using RMS (root mean square method). Hope this makes sense.

 

[Timon]

I started with the Gempro 250 and had a lot of trouble with it drifting and never really found a solution. Then I went to a Gempro 300, which had the same issue as the 250, drifting. Didn’t seem to be any consistency to the drifting in it. I might load 50 rounds with no drift then it’s suddenly all over the place. Other days it drifted from the start. From this I went to the A&D EJ123, I think it was. I never really even set this scale up. I saw the info on the V4 set up with the FX120i and I was sold. I bought the scale and am about a month away from delivery of my V4. Can’t wait.
My suggestion would be to re-zero the Gempro after each load and just put up with it until you can get a FX120i, or similar.

 

[steelshooter]

I have a Gem Pro 250 and Chargemaster 1500. I power them up 24 hours before I'm going load. With very little drift, if at all. I lift the pan and wait until it stabilize before setting the pan back on the scale.. it seem to help with the drift.

 

[CarlosDiggy]

AND makes lots of scales for laboratory use. I think these reloading scales are designed for much lower weight ranges than most. 1mg accuracy which is about .015 grains.

A grain, is a grain, is a grain. Purchase a good laboratory scale or better yet a good JEWELER'S SCALE made in Switzerland..... and REALIZE that Hornady, RCBS, and all the other load-machine 'makers,' put out a machine that uses use cheap scales made in CHINA, and parts cobbled together so they look good, but don't function as a highly precise machine.

You can use the Hornady & RCBS to throw the base charge, but it's best if you use a powder trickler to finish it off PRECISELY to what you really want. That's why you want the Swiss scale, to verify what you really have.

Process is slower.... but you get better rounds. And you can take head shots on deer with confidence.

 

[CacheCropp]

A grain, is a grain, is a grain. Purchase a good laboratory scale or better yet a good JEWELER'S SCALE made in Switzerland..... and REALIZE that Hornady, RCBS, and all the other load-machine 'makers,' put out a machine that uses use cheap scales made in CHINA, and parts cobbled together so they look good, but don't function as a highly precise machine.

You can use the Hornady & RCBS to throw the base charge, but it's best if you use a powder trickler to finish it off PRECISELY to what you really want. That's why you want the Swiss scale, to verify what you really have.

Process is slower.... but you get better rounds. And you can take head shots on deer with confidence.

I’m open to suggestions if you have some make/models or links to better jewelers scales. I don’t care if they only read GM’s, I can convert it easily enough.

edit: just looked up where my GemPro is made. Not sure yet, but this article states it “uses True-Division German HBM sensors and professional components in the manufacture of this scale.” And has a lifetime warranty via a service office in Arizona.

You are being redirected...

 

[Rocketvapor]

I also use the A&D EJ-54D2. On low range with auto zero turned off I do have to rezero often.
I reset the calibration for 10 grams and set it with a good 10 gram weight and check with 1 and 2 gram weights.
My charges for 22 Nosler are 30 to 33 grains but convert to grams and use a post it for a reminder (I'm old).
A 31.4 grain charge is 2.0995. I'll accept 2.0992 thru 2.0998 on the display (+/- 3 tenths of a milligram).
With SB6.5 powder, a milligram is about 6 kernels or about 0.0025 grains per kernel (these are NOT the kernels many talk about )
I use a second scale, not to check the first one but to check my powder handling until I cap the charged case with an inverted bullet. I tare each empty case on the second scale while dispensing powder, pick it up, charge the case with a funnel and set it down on the scale. Should read the same or I lost a few kernels along the way. The charged case with an upside down bullet is set in the loading block.

 

[ronemus]

The A&D FX-120i is a very good scale for our use. It's the least expensive scale I know of that uses magnetic force restoration technology, which is what laboratory-grade balances use. Some corners have to be cut to bring the price down to something reasonable for hobbyist use, but nothing that impacts functionality; the scale is very linear, maintains calibration (I haven't recalibrated in 5 years, and I do check), and zero changes are small when compared to load cell scales. It amazes me that shooters will pay thousands of dollars for rifles and scopes, but balk at $500 for a scale. It's definitely worth another $500 for the AutoThrow/AutoTrickler to get charges right (+/-0.02gr) with ease.

 

[CacheCropp]

This is THE MOST COMMON PROBLEM with electronic scales! They all drift and if you read the specification it will thell you as much. Some more than others. Standard laboratory practice is to zero (tare) the scale prior to every charge.

Higher end scales such as the Fx-120i have the ability to auto zero each time it detects a return to approximately zero.

I’ve made up my mind to replace my scale. I realized this weekend that I’ve just become used to spending many hours reloading. I started working on some 1x fired brass FridayNight. Saturday morning I started weighing charges at 8am. Didn’t finish seating all the bullets for those 60 loads until 2pm. Didn’t take any breaks for those 6 hrs because I wanted to get to the range. I realized weighing the powder is what takes me the longest because I don’t put powder in the case unless I think it’s right. Sometimes when I pick the pan off the scale, the weight of the scale that was tared is slightly different. Would read -57.42 instead of the normal -57.46. Maybe some people would accept that it’s definitely within a tenth of grain or half of a tenth, but I would re-tare it and re-weigh it.again. New scale coming in the near future.

 

[CacheCropp]

The A&D FX-120i is a very good scale for our use. It's the least expensive scale I know of that uses magnetic force restoration technology, which is what laboratory-grade balances use. Some corners have to be cut to bring the price down to something reasonable for hobbyist use, but nothing that impacts functionality; the scale is very linear, maintains calibration (I haven't recalibrated in 5 years, and I do check), and zero changes are small when compared to load cell scales. It amazes me that shooters will pay thousands of dollars for rifles and scopes, but balk at $500 for a scale. It's definitely worth another $500 for the AutoThrow/AutoTrickler to get charges right (+/-0.02gr) with ease.

I’m one of those stubborn ones you talk about. Just realized this weekend that if I’m spending all day trying to get loads done, then I’m not shooting any guns at all. So what’s your time worth to you? If you reload more than 200-300 rounds a year, I’d say a $500 scale is worth it compared to a $100 or $200 scale. That extra $300 will pay for itself if you get to use your guns more, get more out of your range membership, better quality hand loads, etc.

 

[Doom]

I’ve made up my mind to replace my scale. I realized this weekend that I’ve just become used to spending many hours reloading. I started working on some 1x fired brass FridayNight. Saturday morning I started weighing charges at 8am. Didn’t finish seating all the bullets for those 60 loads until 2pm. Didn’t take any breaks for those 6 hrs because I wanted to get to the range. I realized weighing the powder is what takes me the longest because I don’t put powder in the case unless I think it’s right. Sometimes when I pick the pan off the scale, the weight of the scale that was tared is slightly different. Would read -57.42 instead of the normal -57.46. Maybe some people would accept that it’s definitely within a tenth of grain or half of a tenth, but I would re-tare it and re-weigh it.again. New scale coming in the near future.

FYI, direct quote from the Fx-120i manual:

"Press the RE-ZERO key before each weighing to eliminate possible errors."

 

[Rocketvapor]

Sometimes "AUTO ZERO" captures an "ALMOST ZERO" and set display to zero.
Don't know about the FX-120i but my EJ-54D2 has some menu settings that affect how the scale sets zero.
Try different settings.
If you tare, add powder, remove pan, replace pan, Auto Zero may or may not capture a really good zero.
The next time you lift the pan the negative value may be a little different.

 

[Doom]

Speaking of pans, there are a couple of items that cause an issue. The first is not carefully lifting the pan without pushing down on the pan. When this happens the scale can take longer to settle back to zero and appear to be. off zero. Another is using a pan like the Area 419 pan that weighs in the neighborhood of 600 to 700 grains if memory serves me correctly. Weighing 25-100 grain charges in this pan creates a lot of histerisis and takes time to settle.