Savage 93R17 accuracy issues

[Nathan Gravitt]

Bought a used 93R17 off a member on LRH and it won’t shoot worth a crap.1 1/2 - 1 3/4 at 50 yards. Reached out to the guy and he basically said I was on my own. Sooo….
Factory 93R17 except the barrel has been threaded. Laminate thumbhole stock with action screws torqued to 15 inch pounds. (Also tried 20 with no luck). DIP pic rail torqued to 20 inch pounds and loctited. Leupold rings with Leupold VX-1 3x9x40. I pulled the scope off of another 93R17 so I know it’s not the scope. Rings are lapped and loctited and torqued to 20 inch pounds. I checked to make sure the barrel was free floated and not touching anywhere. Typically I am a 3/4” MOA shooter. My other 93r17 in the same thumbhole stock will routinely shoot 1 1/2” groups at 100 yards. I have attached a picture of my set up. Front bipod and rear bag. The same set up I use on my other 93R17. It’s supposed to only have 200 rounds on the barrel. I contacted the owner that had it before the guy that I bought it from. He said as he remembered it shot good. So I’m going to assume he just shot varmints with it and never shot it at paper. Tried two different flavors of cci’s as as well as some Hornady’s. So what am I missing?

 

[scasa]

I have one of those in a plastic stock it's sub moa at a hundred but it needs to be cleaned pretty often. The little .17 cal's seem to get dirty pretty quick

 

[jpx2rk]

HMR ammo is similar to other RF ammo, lot dependent. Try some different ammo/lot #'s if possible.

 

[BradY]

Give it a big scrub. I would suggest iosso or jb paste on a nylon brush that is liberally coated in oil. Back and forth. Then patch it out. Has the muzzle been threaded from factory or done afterwards? If after it could have affected accuracy. Might be worth chopping the thread off and having it recrowned by a reputable gunsmith.

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

It was done by a smith. It was done before I got it so I don’t know who. If the cleaning doesn’t work, I think that pretty much narrows it down to something at the muzzle

 

[BradY]

Yea maybe a recrown is needed. Are the flash marks on the crown even? Pretty easy way to see if the crown isn’t right

 

[drover]

Bought a used 93R17 off a member on LRH and it won’t shoot worth a crap.1 1/2 - 1 3/4 at 50 yards. Reached out to the guy and he basically said I was on my own. Sooo….
Factory 93R17 except the barrel has been threaded. Laminate thumbhole stock with action screws torqued to 15 inch pounds. (Also tried 20 with no luck). DIP pic rail torqued to 20 inch pounds and loctited. Leupold rings with Leupold VX-1 3x9x40. I pulled the scope off of another 93R17 so I know it’s not the scope. Rings are lapped and loctited and torqued to 20 inch pounds. I checked to make sure the barrel was free floated and not touching anywhere. Typically I am a 3/4” MOA shooter. My other 93r17 in the same thumbhole stock will routinely shoot 1 1/2” groups at 100 yards. I have attached a picture of my set up. Front bipod and rear bag. The same set up I use on my other 93R17. It’s supposed to only have 200 rounds on the barrel. I contacted the owner that had it before the guy that I bought it from. He said as he remembered it shot good. So I’m going to assume he just shot varmints with it and never shot it at paper. Tried two different flavors of cci’s as as well as some Hornady’s. So what am I missing?

Things to think about -

Have you checked the bedding?

Does the barrel/action have any discernable movement when you loosen one of the action screws? (I am unfamiliar with this rifle but am assuming that it has two action screws)

Have you tried more torque on the action screws? 15 inch lbs seems light, try somewhere around 25 - 30 inch lbs.

Put out windflags every 25 yards or so - the groups look lilke a wind issue to me. The windflags can be as simple as a piece of surveryors tape about 12 - 14 inches long. Don't shoot unless the flags are doing the same thing each time you shoot. The 17's main attribute is that it shoots flat however they are more wind sensitive than the ballistic tables indicate them to be.

Do the simple things before starting to throw money at the rifle.

drover

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

Things to think about -

Have you checked the bedding?

Does the barrel/action have any discernable movement when you loosen one of the action screws? (I am unfamiliar with this rifle but am assuming that it has two action screws)

Have you tried more torque on the action screws? 15 inch lbs seems light, try somewhere around 25 - 30 inch lbs.

Put out windflags every 25 yards or so - the groups look lilke a wind issue to me. The windflags can be as simple as a piece of surveryors tape about 12 - 14 inches long. Don't shoot unless the flags are doing the same thing each time you shoot. The 17's main attribute is that it shoots flat however they are more wind sensitive than the ballistic tables indicate them to be.

Do the simple things before starting to throw money at the rifle.

drover

Tried 15 and 20. 15 is what Boyd’s recommends for their stocks. There was no discernable
wind yesterday.

 

[B23]

I have that exact same rifle and literally nearly exact same setup as I had mine threaded and shoot it suppressed as well as I have a Leupold on it but mine is a Vari X III 4.5-14x40AO.

On mine one of the best things I did for it was throw that thin, basically sheet metal, POS bottom metal piece away and replace it with a much thicker one from DIP Inc. https://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1511067&CAT=5628

I could never get any consistent torque on the action screws because that thin factory piece would just start bending so I replaced it with the much thicker piece from DIP Inc. I run mine around 20-22 in.lbs in the front and 15-18 in.lbs on the rear one.

Also, and they all seem to have different characteristics so yours may be different but when I give my barrel a good scrubbing my 93/17 HMR always takes nearly a box of ammo before it settles down and will group worth a damn. On mine, until the barrel gets fouled a certain amount it just kind of scatters them all over. So if you do give yours a good scrubbing wait till you've got 25-50 rnds through it before you condemn it. Oh, if you do decide to give the barrel a good cleaning make sure and get some cleaner in the barrel before you attempt to push anything through it. Can't speak for other but when mine is dirty it's a real mother to get those first couple of wet patches through if I don't drip some cleaner in there first.

None of the above may help a darn thing but at this point you've got nothing to lose except your time.

As a last resort you can call Savage Tech support 1 (413) 568-7001. They're usually good about trying to help people sort things out and if nothing works they'll even send you out a prepaid shipping label so you can send it back on their dime and they'll take a look at it, but, since your barrel has been altered from stock and threaded that may void their help. If nothing else works I'd still give them a call and see if they'll do anything to help you out.

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

I have that exact same rifle and literally nearly exact same setup as I had mine threaded and shoot it suppressed as well as I have a Leupold on it but mine is a Vari X III 4.5-14x40AO.

On mine one of the best things I did for it was throw that thin, basically sheet metal, POS bottom metal piece away and replace it with a much thicker one from DIP Inc. https://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=1511067&CAT=5628

I could never get any consistent torque on the action screws because that thin factory piece would just start bending so I replaced it with the much thicker piece from DIP Inc. I run mine around 20-22 in.lbs in the front and 15-18 in.lbs on the rear one.

Also, and they all seem to have different characteristics so yours may be different but when I give my barrel a good scrubbing my 93/17 HMR always takes nearly a box of ammo before it settles down and will group worth a damn. On mine, until the barrel gets fouled a certain amount it just kind of scatters them all over. So if you do give yours a good scrubbing wait till you've got 25-50 rnds through it before you condemn it. Oh, if you do decide to give the barrel a good cleaning make sure and get some cleaner in the barrel before you attempt to push anything through it. Can't speak for other but when mine is dirty it's a real mother to get those first couple of wet patches through if I don't drip some cleaner in there first.

None of the above may help a darn thing but at this point you've got nothing to lose except your time.

As a last resort you can call Savage Tech support 1 (413) 568-7001. They're usually good about trying to help people sort things out and if nothing works they'll even send you out a prepaid shipping label so you can send it back on their dime and they'll take a look at it, but, since your barrel has been altered from stock and threaded that may void their help. If nothing else works I'd still give them a call and see if they'll do anything to help you out.

Thanks for your response. And that’s kind of where I’m at. Since the barrel has been altered I don’t think Savage will do much. Somehow I think all the cleaning in the world isn’t going to help this Barrel but at this point I have to try

 

[B23]

Maybe give this guy a call and see if he has any answers for you he's supposed to specialize in Savage rifles including their rimfires. http://www.savagegunsmithing.com/

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

Maybe give this guy a call and see if he has any answers for you he's supposed to specialize in Savage rifles including their rimfires. http://www.savagegunsmithing.com/

Never heard of him. Anybody use this guy before? That rimfire accuracy package seems very reasonable

 

[B23]

Only thing I'd suggest is before I spent much money on it I would seriously consider having him put a good custom barrel on it or you could be just putting good money in to trying to make a crappy barrel shoot. Just a thought.

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

Only thing I'd suggest is before I spent much money on it I would seriously consider having him put a good custom barrel on it or you could be just putting good money in to trying to make a crappy barrel shoot. Just a thought.

Yeah, exactly. Especially when I can buy a savage used for about $350. If I’m gonna spend that kind of money on a new barrel on top of the gun purchase, I might as well buy another tikka or CZ

 

[Alguapo]

I and friends have the 93R17 from Savage in the wood stocks, A couple of things that helped with the accuracy is finding the right ammo for your gun. Sounds like you have done that. We tried several and it just depends on the rifle. The second thing that really helped was to take your torque driver to the range with you and torque the stock down when shooting some 5 round groups. We started at 10 pounds and went up to 20 plus. One setting will be a sweet spot. One of the guys bedded his stock with JB Weld. He found the front action screw wasn't really touching any wood. He glued in a wooden dowell of oak and drilled it out to support the action screw and post. The 17 HMR isn't what I would call a tack driver on paper but it is a Varminter that is super fun to play with. Just got back from Montana and the dogs from 25 -125 yards hate the 17 HMR.

 

[CharlieNC]

Have you inspected with a bore scope?

 

[B23]

Have you inspected with a bore scope?

Good idea but nobody makes a bore scope that'll fit in these tiny little .172 bores. Maybe Hawkeye does but they're about $1,000

 

[Nathan Gravitt]

Good idea but nobody makes a bore scope that'll fit in these tiny little .172 bores. Maybe Hawkeye does but they're about $1,000

Don’t have a bore scope.

 

[Pyscodog]

My first thoughts and they aren't good...but your the third owner of this rifle, you think there might be a reason? But, like others have said, I'd spend some serious time scrubbing the barrel and see what happens. Then if that doesn't help and your tired of messing with it, start looking for that fourth owner.

 

[drover]

Bought a used 93R17 off a member on LRH and it won’t shoot worth a crap.1 1/2 - 1 3/4 at 50 yards. Reached out to the guy and he basically said I was on my own. Sooo….
Factory 93R17 except the barrel has been threaded. Laminate thumbhole stock with action screws torqued to 15 inch pounds. (Also tried 20 with no luck). DIP pic rail torqued to 20 inch pounds and loctited. Leupold rings with Leupold VX-1 3x9x40. I pulled the scope off of another 93R17 so I know it’s not the scope. Rings are lapped and loctited and torqued to 20 inch pounds. I checked to make sure the barrel was free floated and not touching anywhere. Typically I am a 3/4” MOA shooter. My other 93r17 in the same thumbhole stock will routinely shoot 1 1/2” groups at 100 yards.I have attached a picture of my set up. Front bipod and rear bag. The same set up I use on my other 93R17. It’s supposed to only have 200 rounds on the barrel. I contacted the owner that had it before the guy that I bought it from. He said as he remembered it shot good. So I’m going to assume he just shot varmints with it and never shot it at paper. Tried two different flavors of cci’s as as well as some Hornady’s. So what am I missing?

If I am reading this correctly you have an identically stocked 93R17. If so switch stocks and if the poor grouping follows to the stock that is shooting good then you have a bedding problem. You could even verify it by shooting the known good shooting rifle in the stock of the rifle that is having the grouping problem. Sort of a double test of what is going on and whether it is a stock or rifle problem.

I still urge you to put out some wind flags (indicators) once you see just how many switchs and directions the wind can change to from yardage to yardage will be enlightening. It is not that unusual to observe all 3 windflags pointing different directions at the same time. Just because the wind is not discernable does not mean that is affeting the bullet between where you are at the bench and 100 yard target.
I never try group shooting without windflags. One at 25 yards one at 50 and one at 75 will give enough information for when to shoot and when not to.

drover