Did the .300 Blackout (BLK) Die Out?
- Thread starter mattri
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shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
Jager
Gold $$ Contributor
A lot of us remain very fond of the .300 BLK. Accurate, flexible, and versatile. I've got a bolt gun and a PDW. Sure, I suppose it's a "niche" round. But, then, once you get past .223 and .308... pretty much everything is a "niche" round.
Easy to load for. Easy to shoot. And does a number of things very, very well. My truck gun of choice.
Easy to load for. Easy to shoot. And does a number of things very, very well. My truck gun of choice.
You got specs on that 45 bolt gun?
I’ve got one I’d love to sell. They are hard to get of.
Lots of meat in the freezer from mine.
It's a Savage with a single shot follower 16" barrel. My boy shot the 3 shot group at 50 yards with 200gr semi wad cutters at 900fps. Everyone that shoots it loves it. You can load some wicked supers in it also. I have a 165gr hydra shock load that clocks 1925fps and turns pdogs inside out
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Exactly
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
Hard to out blackout the Blackout because the beauty is you can go supers with it, too.
3Sigma
Silver $$ Contributor
The value is the flexibility and terminal ballistics.
On one hand, you get 30-30 ballistics (or 7.62x39, if you want) for less than 20 grains of powder and a 125gr bullet. All in a AR that runs the same mags and BCG as a 5.56.
On the other, you have a PDW that matches a 10mm Auto with 200 grainers, or a subsonic round that matches a 45 ACP. Using the exact same lower and possibly the same upper as the previous.
It is NOT a precision anything... minute of man/deer/hog? Yes. It is a round for killing things.
On one hand, you get 30-30 ballistics (or 7.62x39, if you want) for less than 20 grains of powder and a 125gr bullet. All in a AR that runs the same mags and BCG as a 5.56.
On the other, you have a PDW that matches a 10mm Auto with 200 grainers, or a subsonic round that matches a 45 ACP. Using the exact same lower and possibly the same upper as the previous.
It is NOT a precision anything... minute of man/deer/hog? Yes. It is a round for killing things.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
The biggest problem with 300 Blackout/Whisper/221 is that it went mainstream. Oddly enough going mainstream also unlocked more potential with bullets made to work within the cartridges velocity window.
As a wildcat, the people who shot it understood that you tailor the cartridge and the barrel to the job. When you have a choice in bullet weights from 85-270 grains and barrels anywhere from 6-24”, producing velocities from 1-3000 fps, off the shelf ammo is sure to disappoint.
Adapting it to an AR was also a problem. You almost immediately lost 200 fps potential in almost any bullet 125 grains or over. Consider the difference when you take advantage of a single shot like a Contender or an AI pattern magazine in a bolt action and your max loaded length approaches 2.500”.
Choose the right combo and 2400 fps with a 150 grain is on the table. Since that bullet has better ballistics than almost all 30-30 bullets, it actually becomes a superior cartridge.
110 grains, 2100 fps+, from an 8” barrel and sub MOA accuracy, isn’t all that bad. The same load tweaked a bit in a 24” barrel is good for about 2800. Or you can slow it down to 900 in either barrel.
Yes, there are expanding 110 grain subsonic bullets made.
Not too many cartridges are that versatile, but you need to hand load. It’s finally getting better, but commercial ammo killed the cartridge. Along with people without a good working ballistic knowledge expecting too much from off the shelf ammo. People read what others were doing with hand loads and expected those results for $10 a box off the shelf ammo.
The mis-information about the cartridge that continues 10 years after SAAMI approval is always amazing to see.
As a wildcat, the people who shot it understood that you tailor the cartridge and the barrel to the job. When you have a choice in bullet weights from 85-270 grains and barrels anywhere from 6-24”, producing velocities from 1-3000 fps, off the shelf ammo is sure to disappoint.
Adapting it to an AR was also a problem. You almost immediately lost 200 fps potential in almost any bullet 125 grains or over. Consider the difference when you take advantage of a single shot like a Contender or an AI pattern magazine in a bolt action and your max loaded length approaches 2.500”.
Choose the right combo and 2400 fps with a 150 grain is on the table. Since that bullet has better ballistics than almost all 30-30 bullets, it actually becomes a superior cartridge.
110 grains, 2100 fps+, from an 8” barrel and sub MOA accuracy, isn’t all that bad. The same load tweaked a bit in a 24” barrel is good for about 2800. Or you can slow it down to 900 in either barrel.
Yes, there are expanding 110 grain subsonic bullets made.
Not too many cartridges are that versatile, but you need to hand load. It’s finally getting better, but commercial ammo killed the cartridge. Along with people without a good working ballistic knowledge expecting too much from off the shelf ammo. People read what others were doing with hand loads and expected those results for $10 a box off the shelf ammo.
The mis-information about the cartridge that continues 10 years after SAAMI approval is always amazing to see.
P1ZombieKiller
Gold $$ Contributor
I love the 300 BO. I have 4. one designed specifically for subs.... 1 design specifically for plinking supers. 1 designed for hunting with supers, and 1 designed for hybrid role.
They shoot a 308 bullet anywhere from 100 - 240 grains. Super versatile. In Texas, it is the perfect white tail deer rifle for a kid. In my opinion, its the perfect first kids centerfire rifle.
I will disagree that it is hard to load for. It may be hard to get extreme accuracy loaded for it, but there are half a dozen powders that work well in it and a bazillion different bullets you can use. I built my son a hunting rifle out of a old 30br barrel. That rifle is a great shooter. It's a little heavy, but shoots those 125 SST's in one ragged hole at 100, and has shoot several sub 1" groups at 300 (3 shot groups).
They shoot a 308 bullet anywhere from 100 - 240 grains. Super versatile. In Texas, it is the perfect white tail deer rifle for a kid. In my opinion, its the perfect first kids centerfire rifle.
I will disagree that it is hard to load for. It may be hard to get extreme accuracy loaded for it, but there are half a dozen powders that work well in it and a bazillion different bullets you can use. I built my son a hunting rifle out of a old 30br barrel. That rifle is a great shooter. It's a little heavy, but shoots those 125 SST's in one ragged hole at 100, and has shoot several sub 1" groups at 300 (3 shot groups).
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
Because it
I'll wager more rounds are shot every day than any given year when it was a wildcat.
Because it went "mainstream", wildcatters can't do the same thing they did before? Its now been "killed"?
I'll wager more rounds are shot every day than any given year when it was a wildcat.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Absolutely.
No where in there did I say going mainstream killed the popularity.
I said it killed the cartridge.
All the magazine articles, all the hype was directed at about 25% of the cartridges capabilities. May be less with some of the newer bullets now available due to the popularity.
If you have played with the cartridge, and look at half the posts in any given thread like this are "you can't do this" posts. Any one who has spent much time with the cartridge know they are false, because they have been doing it.
That's why going mainstream killed the cartridge potential. Too much false information taken as gospel. Largely do to factory ammunition tailored to cycle an AR and fit in a magazine.
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
An RO from the range I shoot at did that on New Years Day. The RO survived with relatively minor hand trauma. The rifle did not. Apparently, he had been scrounging unfired cases and stuffing them into a spare magazine. No idea how he missed the difference between 223 and a 300BO round, though.
The result was rather spectacular, though:
Took a bit of pounding to get that bullet out. Bolt/carrier group looked like a cartoon exploded barrel, with the lugs and carrier actually peeled back banana style. Barrel extension didn't look much better. Most of the gas went through the mag well, but there was enough expansion to shatter the metal in the upper and lower receivers.
300BO brass is essentially a 223 case lopped off just below the shoulder and reformed to hold a .308 bullet. The bullets' taper usually falls within the outline of a loaded 223 round.
I have owned and shot 300 Whispers for over many, many moons. Most were in XPs, some were in Contenders. The thing that amazed me then was people that expected to be able to wring the same performance out of an extreme range of bullet weights with the same barrel twist. They could not understand why their 125 grain lightning bolt emitter made funny holes in targets in odd places with 220 grain bullets. The rules apply across the board, handguns to rifles.
How about a 30 Major(Grendel)? Can be loaded up or down, feeds well from an AR and it shoots well enough to own the smallest 100 yard 5 shot group record. The Stewart version was a mere .015" shorter, IIRC.
3000fps from a good bolt gun with 110-125gr bullets is possible. The USAMU proved it reliable and it makes major power factor(hence the name) in USPSA 3 gun matches without breaking bolt lugs. That was its original intent, btw.
3000fps from a good bolt gun with 110-125gr bullets is possible. The USAMU proved it reliable and it makes major power factor(hence the name) in USPSA 3 gun matches without breaking bolt lugs. That was its original intent, btw.
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