With new brass I dip the necks into Redding Imperial Dry neck Lube (small black tub with graphite coated ceramic balls) then expand the necks and leave the lube inside the necks to assist bullet seating.
Lube Inside Case Mouth
- Thread starter treillw
- Start date
With new brass I dip the necks into Redding Imperial Dry neck Lube (small black tub with graphite coated ceramic balls) then expand the necks and leave the lube inside the necks to assist bullet seating.
To me it looks as if that federal case has been cleaned after it was fired and seperated or cleaned before it was fired.... either way there is a patch on the shoulder of that case that tells me it wasnt all nice and even patena. It may have had a bad case of verdigri that was removed with brasso for all we know.
I occasionally tumble brass in my STM SS pin tumbler. I always tumble my 458 SOCOM brass because its filthy. IMO, the trick to pin tumbling is to avoid tumbling too long. Brass gets clean pretty quick in a pin tumbler. Tumbling too long WILL remove all the carbon from the necks and will tend to peen the case mouth slightly. Tumbling for 45min-1hr is plenty. It leaves most of the carbon in the neck while still getting the cases clean on the inside and outside. Case necks should be lightly chamfered after you're done.
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http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?58344-Dezincification-of-Brass-Liquid-cleaners
Neck separations in 2009 with Remanufactured LC brass, from Black Hills. The BH original ammo shot great, no issues. Great ammo.
BH, LC brass was fired, reloaded & stored.
At the time, the vinegar was thought to be the cause.
After many years, its simply over working of the brass when reloading that causes the problem.IMO.
Note that a donut comes with some new 223/5.56 brass. Hard to pull the expander out of the lubed necks.
I now have a fl die with a honed neck. Or i neck turn & use a factory fl die. Neck separations have stopped.
Note that vinegar has turned the LC brass brown.
Neck separations in 2009 with Remanufactured LC brass, from Black Hills. The BH original ammo shot great, no issues. Great ammo.
BH, LC brass was fired, reloaded & stored.
At the time, the vinegar was thought to be the cause.
After many years, its simply over working of the brass when reloading that causes the problem.IMO.
Note that a donut comes with some new 223/5.56 brass. Hard to pull the expander out of the lubed necks.
I now have a fl die with a honed neck. Or i neck turn & use a factory fl die. Neck separations have stopped.
Note that vinegar has turned the LC brass brown.
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You are shooting an AR suppressed... it doesn't get much dirtier. Some of us elect to use an adjustable gas block not just to improve the performance, but also to limit the amount of dirty gas cycled back into the receiver. Honestly, I can't tell how much this helps... everything is still filthy 
Steel pin tumbling is the only way to truly clean these cases. As to the concerns about carbon in the neck as a lubricant or as a binding agent - remove the carbon and replace it with something else.
There is a world of difference doing precision loading and doing bulk. The volume is a PITA and performing any case prep step a couple of thousand times isn't efficient. I like to find simple answers that are easy and repeatable... Why... because I have done the Q-Tip thing before. You are making "Bulk" ammo for AR15 so Minute of Man or even 1MOA is an acceptable goal.
If "Squeaky" Clean is a concern or perceived negative then the simple answer is add a step to your case prep process. After steel pin tumbling, drop the cases in a vibrating tumbler with media (walnut shell, corn cob or whatever) with some carnauba wax. Now your cases are will stay shiny, but not "squeaky" clean. Or use Honady OneShot and don't wipe it off. After all... it is an AR15 and won't notice the difference If you continue to have concerns then buy second rifle as backup.
Steel pin tumbling is the only way to truly clean these cases. As to the concerns about carbon in the neck as a lubricant or as a binding agent - remove the carbon and replace it with something else.
There is a world of difference doing precision loading and doing bulk. The volume is a PITA and performing any case prep step a couple of thousand times isn't efficient. I like to find simple answers that are easy and repeatable... Why... because I have done the Q-Tip thing before. You are making "Bulk" ammo for AR15 so Minute of Man or even 1MOA is an acceptable goal.
If "Squeaky" Clean is a concern or perceived negative then the simple answer is add a step to your case prep process. After steel pin tumbling, drop the cases in a vibrating tumbler with media (walnut shell, corn cob or whatever) with some carnauba wax. Now your cases are will stay shiny, but not "squeaky" clean. Or use Honady OneShot and don't wipe it off. After all... it is an AR15 and won't notice the difference
If you continue to have concerns then buy second rifle as backup.I wonder what process factory ammunition goes through with their new virgin brass to address this situation?
You probably forgot more than I know since I'm just a average varmint hunter. This issue of "cold welding" has always puzzled me. This is serious question, not an attempt to be cute. I apologize in advance for high jacking the thread but this is an opportunity to ask this question from someone who is more knowledgeable than me and perhaps learn.
The science is there I suppose regarding the galvanic action you described. And the noticeable resistance to seating a bullet deeper for rounds that have sat for some time is real. I don't dispute that.
Here's my dilemma. I have several very accurate varmint rifles that I often rotate from one season to other because I like to try different rifles. I often have rounds remaining that carry over from one season to the next rotation season, about 24 months so. I have never noticed any performance change in these reloads that have sat that long. Also, I often bulk load in the winter for the upcoming spring / summer varmint season so rounds remain seated for several months before use. Again, no performance changes. Let me qualify performance: basically I'm in the + or - approximate 1/2 moa range for my precision varmint rifles
So my question is this, does the "cold welding" produce measurable performance changes at this level of precision?
Also, what about cold welding effect on factory ammo in which the self life can vary significantly? I 've seen amazing groups shot at the range with premium factory ammo.
I wet tumble for 20 minutes only with pins after drying I then seat primers then swab all the necks with one shot on a q-tip and let dry. While the necks are drying I’ll take all the bullets that I’m going to load for the match put them in a zip lock bag and coat them a couple of times with one shot and tumble them around between coatings and let dry for a couple of minutes then charge and seat bullets, they go in nice and smooth and now there is lube between the copper and the brass. The one shot drys quick and will not harm the powder.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Factory rounds do not have carbon in them and i doubt a couple seasons on your varmint rounds will corrode em much. Lots of people that are going to preload a while before a match seat long then seat to the right depth before the match. They do this because of that inconsistent pop and most dont realize why they do it they just know they like carbon in the necks and know they need to reseat to final depth right before the match.
I was in the Army 1964-66. In training we always shot the oldest ammo stored on post. We were shooting ammo dated around the time of the Korean War. It never was a problem. Does the military load bullets into cases as they come out of production? Why would you load 1000s of rounds you don't intend to shoot in the next 10-20 years. Are you a survivalist loading up for zombie or alien protection? If we end up in a war like Ukraine is having a rifle will only protect you for a limited time. Eventually you run out of food, water and a warm place to live.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
200rds is more than enough. If you use those surely you can pick up more from your work. If not they get yours. Most important thing is to get water and food stored. Im a fan of heaven’s harvest. Gotta be aware if your food is freezr dried or just dehydrated and its shelf life
Hernon Bullet Proof 650 is environmentally safe Asphalt, water based ammunition waterproofing sealant. Formulated to waterproof and seal the interface between a bullet and cartridge. Bullet Proof 650 is formulated for internal coating and sealing of small, medium and large caliber ammunition. On the larger caliber ammunition the sealant is used to coat the inside of the shells as a barrier coating to prevent the reaction of the cartridge and the ignition powder. Hernon’s Bullet Proof 650 is approved on the US Army TDP for small caliber ammunition.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You wouldnt believe the pop those asphalt sealed rounds have when seating them deeper to pull the bullets.
I used to use Lyman Motor Mica dry neck lube until I went back to tumbling with corncob. Stainless steel pin tumbling is best for super dirty range pickup brass.
About loaded ammo with some age to it,.. I have 50 year old Chinese Surplus 7.62x39... also have 41 year old Czechoslovakian 7.62x39,.. Romanian and Russian too. Tens of thousands rounds shot,.. Every single round went BANG and never split anywhere. The Chinese rounds from the early 70's are hotter than the others.
About loaded ammo with some age to it,.. I have 50 year old Chinese Surplus 7.62x39... also have 41 year old Czechoslovakian 7.62x39,.. Romanian and Russian too. Tens of thousands rounds shot,.. Every single round went BANG and never split anywhere. The Chinese rounds from the early 70's are hotter than the others.
Thanks for the explanation.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You reckon you could tell if any had inconsistent release pressures?
If you're asking about the 762x39 surplus ammo, of course i have no idea about release pressures, but they all work as expected. I sure as hell don't use surplus ammo in precision rifles
Pretty much 99 % of shooting I do with surplus ammo is with surplus rifles with open sights or peep sights at 300 meters shooting steel.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Ammo loaded for long periods of time work very well for this applicationIf you're asking about the 762x39 surplus ammo, of course i have no idea about release pressures, but they all work as expected. I sure as hell don't use surplus ammo in precision rifles
Pretty much 99 % of shooting I do with surplus ammo is with surplus rifles with open sights or peep sights at 300 meters shooting steel.
I have been pulling down milsurp "greek" .303. some of it is in poor condition Wet powder, corroded brass. I have not had to resort to pushing the projectile in further to break the seal. It has the bitumen mentioned above.
I have been re purposing the projectile and the powder, putting aside any too far gone.
My puller is an old herters one and works very well. I love to shoot the old "three oh" With good reloads ( like Siera 174 BTHP's ) I can get inside the 5 ring at 600 yds. Thats 2 MOA wide, but I am happy with that from a 100 year old rifle and open sights.
I find the flat base original stuff to be not quite as accurate at distance.
Some of the original greek manufacture ammo of 1969 - 73 era does show a variation in velocity and impact some by 150 fps shot to shot
I have been re purposing the projectile and the powder, putting aside any too far gone.
My puller is an old herters one and works very well. I love to shoot the old "three oh" With good reloads ( like Siera 174 BTHP's ) I can get inside the 5 ring at 600 yds. Thats 2 MOA wide, but I am happy with that from a 100 year old rifle and open sights.
I find the flat base original stuff to be not quite as accurate at distance.
Some of the original greek manufacture ammo of 1969 - 73 era does show a variation in velocity and impact some by 150 fps shot to shot
I like the moly approach and you can really see the difference in psi bullet seating. May I suggest that you make a solution of moly and 91% or stronger IPA (alcohol). This seems to be a more efficient method and involves less waste of the moly, which ain't cheap. Remarkable difference in psi seating.
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