Dry graphite lube

[rijndael]

Reloaders do a lot of things ammo companies don't, I wouldn't consider their process or results ideal for the home user looking for the best accuracy and precision.

 

[tuttlefarm]

Why does this appear to be a solution in search of a problem ?
I've never been to a benchrest match in my life that I've seen a soul do this.
What am I missing?
For anybody that considers their own time valuable, how about any of a number of decent bushing dies and make seating pressure whatever you desire.

Tim, this comment really shows your level of ignorance in reloading and true competition shooting. Listen, learn and go shoot some long range competition. Go south down to Williamsport Pa and take your best stuff............

 

[marchboom]

The shooters who dry tumble or don't tumble at all use the carbon in the neck as a lube. But, IMO, there is no way to make sure that you have the same amount of carbon buildup every time you load. I think that starting with a squeaky clean case and then use dry lube, moly or graphite powder, in the neck allows you to be more consistent with neck tension.

 

[6BRA]

If you anneal after every firing, there won't be much carbon left in the neck. Does cold welding exist?
Dry lube is a cheap and fast way to lube the neck for final seating or mandrels.

 

[Fairchaser]

I wet tumble with SS pins and anneal each time. I will take a qtip dipped in graphite and swap inside of each neck before I expand with a mandrel. This also provides a dry lube for the bullet. It may or may not help, but I think it couldn’t hurt and it feels very consistent when seating bullets.

 

[One Eye Pete]

Tried all different methods of lubing the inside of case necks. The cleanest, easiest and most consistent method I have found is molybdenum disulphide powder in alcohol. I bought moly powder on eBay. I took approximately 1/2 oz of the moly and mixed it with approximately 2 oz (liquid) of 95 percent rubbing alcohol in a small bottle. I use an appropriate size bore mop and dip the tip in the bottle. I can swab the inside of about 10 cases before I have to re-dip. This leaves a very uniform quick drying coating on the inside of the necks. No lube is needed on the bullet and charging powder doesn't affect the coating. I borescope every time I clean and the moly has no effect on the bore. Bullet seating in a force gauge arbor press gives very consistent results.

 

[Hoot]

Tried all different methods of lubing the inside of case necks. The cleanest, easiest and most consistent method I have found is molybdenum disulphide powder in alcohol. I bought moly powder on eBay. I took approximately 1/2 oz of the moly and mixed it with approximately 2 oz (liquid) of 95 percent rubbing alcohol in a small bottle. I use an appropriate size bore mop and dip the tip in the bottle. I can swab the inside of about 10 cases before I have to re-dip. This leaves a very uniform quick drying coating on the inside of the necks. No lube is needed on the bullet and charging powder doesn't affect the coating. I borescope every time I clean and the moly has no effect on the bore. Bullet seating in a force gauge arbor press gives very consistent results.

I tried exactly that on shiny neck interiors and for the life of me, I couldn't see any significant amount left behind. I was expecting it to look like it was swabbed with Dykem.
I used .1 micron powder and denatured alcohol.

Hoot

 

[Fuj]

Nothing like a good carbon layer on a 4 time fired case.
I did an experiment with a heavy carboned neck. I took
20 cases and gave them a light nylon brush. Ten of those
cases, I applied graphite on top of that carbon. The results
showed for just the carbon, I had a higher velocity and
low single digit ES and SD's. I firmly believe after the test,
the combination of built up carbon and added graphite
was giving the bullet an unequal release and may have
needed more neck tension......Moral of the story on my
end.....I only neck lube until the forth firing. After that, I
just rely on the carbon for the rest of the case life and
use no lube.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Funny, in this whole conversation I heard no mention of a seating force gauge. I would think that would tell the story . The neck lube question has always intrigued me and I have tried various methods. Several years ago giving 1000 paper a try I got into watching ES. 3 guns in the mid to high teens. Went to 1, 4 and 9 but not by lubing necks. I used one swipe with a Montana extreme nylon brush which is what I continue to use. I do know 2 very sucessful long time 1000 guys who do thi. One makes them squeeky clean and bright and the other does only the 1 swipe with a nylon brush. Confusing to me. let me throw another idea out there. Every article I have ever read by an "expert " on what happens starts with the cartridge case neck expands and then the bullet moves. If this is the case, maybe this discussion is irrelevant. I Don't know but I do wonder.

 

[Rat Rifle]

Funny, in this whole conversation I heard no mention of a seating force gauge. I would think that would tell the story . The neck lube question has always intrigued me and I have tried various methods. Several years ago giving 1000 paper a try I got into watching ES. 3 guns in the mid to high teens. Went to 1, 4 and 9 but not by lubing necks. I used one swipe with a Montana extreme nylon brush which is what I continue to use. I do know 2 very sucessful long time 1000 guys who do thi. One makes them squeely clean and bright and the other does only the 1 swipe with a nylon brush. Confusing to me.let me throw another idea out there. Every article I have ever read by an "expert " on what happens starts with the cartridge case neck expands and then the bullet moves. If this is the case, maybe this discussion is irrelevant. I Don't know but I do wonder.

Along with what You are saying, I recently saw an interview where David Tubbs said that if we load into the lands, neck tension becomes irrelevant? The man has shot a lot of rounds. I don’t know? I’m going to try it the next time I shoot.

 

[Joe Salt]

Ok the Moly in the neck thing again! I'll tell you again if your off the lands like I am, the moly gives consistent seating depth's nothing more. Neck tension I change with a bushing. If you don't think I'm right try the bare neck with a bare bullet and see what you get as far as consistent seating depth.
Oh and I clean the carbon out of the necks every time.

Joe Salt

 

[JEFFPPC]

Ok the Moly in the neck thing again! I'll tell you again if your off the lands like I am, the moly gives consistent seating depth's nothing more. Neck tension I change with a bushing. If you don't think I'm right try the bare neck with a bare bullet and see what you get as far as consistent seating depth.
Oh and I clean the carbon out of the necks every time.

Joe Salt

Joe, how do you clean the necks. There is brushed, cleaned, polished. Sonic cleaned and SS pins. Just curious.

 

[bozo699]

Redding Imperial Application Media.

They're little ceramic balls coated in graphite. Just dip the neck, fast, clean and easy.

I recommend it on new brass because the inside neck grip is not consistent.

Also recommend it for anyone who Wet tumbles with the Stainless media. For the necks are very grabby after the wet tumbling and not consistent. Affecting bullet pull.

For fired brass tumbled in cob or walnut or the like, I wouldn't waste my time with the graphite.

100% spot on!…..
Wayne

 

[bozo699]

Ok the Moly in the neck thing again! I'll tell you again if your off the lands like I am, the moly gives consistent seating depth's nothing more. Neck tension I change with a bushing. If you don't think I'm right try the bare neck with a bare bullet and see what you get as far as consistent seating depth.
Oh and I clean the carbon out of the necks every time.

Joe Salt

I agree with a lot of your stuff but this is not one of them,….. 100% the opposite for me!…
Wayne

 

[6BRA]

Nothing like a good carbon layer on a 4 time fired case.
I did an experiment with a heavy carboned neck. I took
20 cases and gave them a light nylon brush. Ten of those
cases, I applied graphite on top of that carbon. The results
showed for just the carbon, I had a higher velocity and
low single digit ES and SD's. I firmly believe after the test,
the combination of built up carbon and added graphite
was giving the bullet an unequal release and may have
needed more neck tension......Moral of the story on my
end.....I only neck lube until the forth firing. After that, I
just rely on the carbon for the rest of the case life and
use no lube.

Are we to assume that you never anneal? Not for case life but for neck tension consistency.

 

[Fuj]

Are we to assume that you never anneal? Not for case life but for neck tension consistency.

I normally anneal on most stuff every second firing. With my
two wild cats, the SA284 and 284-ELF, I'm not annealing for the
second lot of Norma brass. I do not neck turn. As a matter of
fact, the necks on my shortened brass is much thicker then
factory SAMMI and have adjusted my reamers for a larger
diameter neck and hone my dies the same. All in the spirit of
testing. So all the first lot of brass I shot last year, I'll continue
to anneal. The new brass I just made and fireformed, will get
no annealing. Chamber and dies are real close in numbers so
the brass won't get worked hardly at all.....There was mention
about annealing ruining the carbon layer, but I'm not finding
that true. After annealing, I have a nylon brush chucked up in
a drill. One pass and a good inspection shows a good carbon
layer is still there.....Match season starts for me in about a month.
We'll see what pans out.

 

[bozo699]

I normally anneal on most stuff every second firing. With my
two wild cats, the SA284 and 284-ELF, I'm not annealing for the
second lot of Norma brass. I do not neck turn. As a matter of
fact, the necksout.

There was mention
about annealing ruining the carbon layer, but I'm not finding
that true. After annealing, I have a nylon brush chucked up in
a drill. One pass and a good inspection shows a good carbon
layer is still there.....Match season starts for me in about a month.
We'll see what pans out.

I totally agree and my findings exactly!
Wayne

 

[rijndael]

Whether you flame or induction anneal may matter.

I still have carbon in the neck with flame annealing.

 

[Joe Salt]

Joe, how do you clean the necks. There is brushed, cleaned, polished. Sonic cleaned and SS pins. Just curious.

I use a brush rapped with 0000 steel wool. And I tumble my brass and every fifth time or so sonic clean.

Joe Salt

 

[foxguy]

When you have shot as much long range benchrest as I have, you might learn something by listening. Bushings will give you more or less tension on the bullet, but without proper lubrication on the inside of the neck, you will have inconsistent velocities. Might not see the difference of 50 fps at 100-200 yards, but as you start reaching out to 1000 yards it will show up as a lot of vertical,

Tuttlefarm,

If I can ask, what are you using for inside Neck / Bullet lube for consistent bullet release and Low Velocity sd numbers.

Thanks