Moving backers at 1,000 yards???

[Dave Way]

So the groups just keep getting smaller and smaller every year. Sub 1" is sure to fall. Any predictions if we'll ever see moving backers in 1,000 yard bench-rest? They have been required in short range bench-rest for years to verify the number of shots in the group. Seems most 1,000 yard matches I go to there are targets with more than one bullet touching. If you were unlucky enough to have two in exactly the same hole or too close to measure... you would be disqualified.



Personally, I cant wait to see the first sub 1" group in competition. I hope they all cut their own hole! Dave.

 

[Dave Way]

Nice shooting!
I can only dream of shooting that good.

Not me, wish it was! Match I was at in WV last year. One of three really small ones under 2" that day. Thinking it was Mike Wilson, but when you start seeing multiple groups like that, it makes you consider the possible need for things like a motorized moving backer system. Dave.

 

[Ga. Dawg]

There were actually three 1.XXX groups shot in that same match. David Matthews and Tom Dunn, with Tom Shooting a 1.4X. I believe a sub one inch will show up soon!

Mike

 

[shoot4fun]

So the groups just keep getting smaller and smaller every year. Sub 1" is sure to fall. Any predictions if we'll ever see moving backers in 1,000 yard bench-rest? They have been required in short range bench-rest for years to verify the number of shots in the group. Seems most 1,000 yard matches I go to there are targets with more than one bullet touching. If you were unlucky enough to have two in exactly the same hole or too close to measure... you would be disqualified.
Personally, I cant wait to see the first sub 1" group in competition. I hope they all cut their own hole! Dave.

Haven't you jumped the gun a bit? What about all the smalls on 600 yard targets. Bart already has a couple of teeny-tiny ones there.

Honestly, we don't need moving backers for 600 or 1,000 BR.

 

[dmoran]

Acoustic target frames, with the Record target with in it, is the future that I foresee.
The technology is already here and fairly affordable:
Adam's (@adamjmac ) "Shot Marker" are $800 for a single unit (can network up to 30 targets).
Best of 2 worlds: the actual target to measure/score and "live" target data.

 

[Jet]

Just as long as we have pullers in the pits and they are
counting splashes in the berm we should not need the things used in SR.

Rich

 

[ttfreestyle]

Acoustic target frames, with the Record target with in it, is the future that I foresee.
The technology is already here and fairly affordable:
Adam's "Shot Marker" are $800 for a single unit (can network up to 30 targets).

This is the setup dead zero will have when it’s up and running.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Personally a leaning backer at 600 an 1000 will take care of any doubles or a single if there set up properly electronic targets may be the future but still need a paper target to shoot threw.

 

[dmoran]

Personally a leaning backer at 600 an 1000 will take care of any doubles or a single if there set up properly electronic targets may be the future but still need a paper target to shoot threw.

Re-read my post. With acoustic frames, you'd have just that: the actual target papers to be physically measured/scored and handed out, along with captured "live" data. Even though the acoustic will measure and score also, doesn't mean it has to be used.
And don't confuse acoustic targets with E-targets (big difference).

 

[Stan Taylor]

Re-read my post. With acoustic frames, you'd have just that: an actual target paper (to be physically measured/scored), along with captured data.
Even though the acoustic will measure and score also, doesn't mean it has to be used.
And don't confuse acoustic targets with E-targets (big difference).

Donavan I totally understand.Thanks

 

[CaptainMal]

What about ranges without pits?

To do pits at Manatee you would need scuba gear, gator chasers, water moccasin patrol or an artificial mountain you can get behind. Gotta be an angled backer or electronic. We talk about electronic targets but the money is not there.

Our salvation is the mirage and winds making small groups very difficult. Of course a couple years ago, in IBS competition, Alex Lynne shot small. Guess it can happen.

fullsizeoutput_fd8 by Larry Malinoski, on Flickr

 

[Terry]

I almost got DQ'd with a 600 yard target last year. Sometimes it's hard to see several hits in a small group.

 

[Dave Way]

As the OP I'd like to address a few things. I used 1,000 yard in the title simply because I have never shot a 600 yard match. I hope to change that this season! Watching for bullet splashes is not perfect because blinking is involuntary, not to mention not all ranges have pits. Leaning target, I would need some explanation on that one. Obviously some type of back up system may be needed eventually if the groups and aggregates keep shrinking. We could talk all day about whether it's the barrels, actions, optics, stocks, triggers, gunsmiths, cartridges, bullets etc. (I think it takes a combination of all of these) but that doesn't matter, the facts are they are shrinking. As they do, the odds of a target being DQ'd increases without some sort of backup system.

I mentioned moving backers because that was what I had seen in my past as a short range bench rest shooter. I actually think for long range and the size and number of target frames as well as the spacing between them, at least at the ranges I have shot, acoustic target microphones along with the paper target, make the most sense.

The purpose of my post was to make people think about the possibility of a target or heaven forbid a new record target not counting because only 4 or 9 shots could be discerned and maybe get some of those in charge of ranges thinking about this subject.

Dave.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I think at some point something will need to be done. Guys work too hard and put too much time and money into this to get shorted. I just noticed this the other day. Shot at the 600yd Nats in 2021. Potential world record, but with no backer or acoustic devices to know there was 6 on this one it was scored as 5. Would have been nice to know if that high shot was a shot by accident during the sighter period or a cross fire.

 

[CaptainMal]

Old post but of interest. Been using 1/4" coroplast 12 X 12" BACKERS at our 600 yard IBS shoots. Sticking them right behind the area of target center. Best done with the plastic, waffle-pattern in the center of the plastic cardboard. Regular cardboard and foam-filled cardboard does not work as well but can work a bit.

Do about 30 shots or so and then change them from behind the targets. On our last IBS shoot, Tom Jacobs had a four-hole target. Clearly four holes and a DQ until you looked at the backer. On exit bullets seem to yah and there sits two meplat holes on exit coming out the same entrance hole.

Target was then ruled good.

Highly recommend some form of removable backing piece to get a second look at exit holes behind the target. Just the paper can show perfect petal count and pattern but a backer can give you more information.

 

[tom]

Why do we lean towards DQ in scoring sheds? Where would we think a bullet flew off to if there's a wad inner rings?

Tom

 

[Mulligan]

Why do we lean towards DQ in scoring sheds? Where would we think a bullet flew off to if there's a wad inner rings?

Tom

Different issue, but, I wonder why the rule is a DQ instead of a penalty.
Time for more hot tea.
CW

 

[Rat Rifle]

Why do we lean towards DQ in scoring sheds? Where would we think a bullet flew off to if there's a wad inner rings?

Tom

I understand what You are saying. But I think it was in My 2nd year of BR shooting when I witnessed a target with 4 holes, shot by a top competitor, in the running for a top position. No matter how anyone looked at that target, only 4 holes could be seen, peddles and all. All match officials examined that target. What could the Scorer do? Pick one of the 4 holes and declare that 2 pills had passed through it with no evidence that it had? None of the Match officials wanted to DQ that target, but what could they do?

CaptainMail and all the principles at the Manatee range are doing all they can to eliminate the problem. As time goes on, the groups are getting smaller and smaller, so solutions are needed.

 

[Northridge]

I have witnessed more, ghost shots with target marking systems that cost guys not only a lost shot but a match weekend vs splashes in the bank. a little common sense go's along way but like others have said not all ranges have live pits. if we are to the point of tape and other devises at our range, guys will have to step up and put there money where there mouth is from a volunteering stand point cause that needs a rolling tape, I can direct them to the labor pool.. I promise when a group like this is forming guys are paying attention

Shawn Williams

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I have been scoring the targets at Deep Creek for a while now. A true double tap is extremely rare. If you study the target close enough you can find that double. I think theres only been one time and I got the refs and even the shooter to try and find it. The target I posted above only took a glance to know there was 5 in that wad. The electronic targets are getting cheap enough now maybe they can be used in conjunction with the paper targets only to verify the number of shot fired and make sure they were during the record period.