I have a Savage in 243 Win that I would like to shoot in a monthly 600 yard f class match. Never shot in a match before but I shoot the 600 yard target a lot. Just the action is factory though. Shillen barrel and Mcree chasis. The damn thing just shoots. Not good enough to win but good enough to turn some heads and have some fun with
Tac Ops-Mike Miller post
- Thread starter butchlambert
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PRS is not won by having the most precise rifle.
Some matches are won with burned out barrels that can barely shoot 1 MOA. Large steel targets are fairly forgiving of that.
PRS is not a game of shooting the smallest groups.
outasite`08
Gold $$ Contributor
outasite`08
Gold $$ Contributor
I smell the lock coming when the BOSS gets up. Jeff
You guys need to just agree to disagree. I am not buying the 50 millionths bs either. Oops did it myself! Time to lock this down, it's been a long winter.
Paul
Paul
Please, Don't call Mike, or anyone at Krieger to discuss this. It was "discussed" to death almost 20 years ago when this subject began. We are answering 50-75 calls a day and don't need to spend business time about some argument on the internet. We farmed out the inspection of this barrel in question to a lab that had laser measuring equipment and they deemed a datum point in the chamber to be concentric to a datum point in the bore within 2 millionths. I don't work at that lab, have access to that equipment, or have the ability to explain in technical terms how they came up with those numbers. I simply read the inspection report. We are done talking about it from a company standpoint.
I know this is the internet, and it's easy to argue with people, and trust me, everyone is right, just ask them. But get off the internet and go shooiting. Benchrest, PRS, F-Class, Service Rifle, or just grab your Dads old .22. But get outside and go shooting. It is far healthier than getting your undies in a bundle over dumb stuff like this.
Mike.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Wow!
Go outside? it's 14 degrees. I'd like to wait untill it at least gets up to my age out there, but thats a couple months off.
hpshooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Thank you for taking the time to post this information, I doubt that I am the only one who appreciates the post.
drop_point
Silver $$ Contributor
As much as I hate to contribute to this cluster, I can share with you some experience with the rifles in question. A friend of mine received one. It was cut specifically for Federal Gold Medal Match, 168 gr Sierra BTHP.
I put several rounds down the rifle. I couldn't see anything outside of cosmetics where an extreme level of detail was shown. It shot previously mentioned ammo into about 1/2 MOA consistently. There were times it was closer to 3/4 MOA. My factory 700 VS in a McMillan was shooting quite a bit tighter. My GA Precision 6.5x47 Lapua was shooting 1/4 MOA for me on the same day. Was it shooter? I don't think so.
The next day, we decided to stretch the legs out a bit and took them to 700 yards. The TacOps would hit the 6" steel plate but there were rounds that missed completely without a condition change. Was it the 168 gr going transonic? Accuracy of the rifle? Or a ghost wind? The other .308 with 175s did fine and obviously the 6.5x47 did as well.
Finally, one of the 168s got stuck in the chamber. A strong thrust of the bolt pulled out the case leaving the Sierra MatchKing stuck in the lands and powder filling the action. This seemed odd since it was a "field gun" designed for that ammo. My friend who owned the rifle called up the maker who said "Oh shoot, it must have been chambered with the OLD reamer". He went on to explain that Federal had changed their ammo and the "new ammo" wasn't right for the chamber. Seemed odd to me, a field gun with such a small margin of error. Seemed even weirder that the ammo wasn't new, rather was quite old.
My friend shipped the rifle back to be rechambered. He function checked it and then sold it to fund a different rifle which was both more accurate and cheaper. I believe at the time, these rifles were priced at around $5,000 using a plain old Rem 700 action. It did not appear anything was done to improve the function, other than a large bolt knob. No side bolt release, no extractor upgrade, etc. But a lot was spent on cosmetics and "fastener timing" that in no way enhanced functionality of the rifle. I believe they are now in the $6000+ range. For that price, one could have an Accuracy International which is certainly a better "field gun" in any way imaginable.
I'm not knocking the smith or his work, but the one example I've experienced was less than stellar and there didn't seem to be any value for the end user. It seemed more like the buyer is buying jewelry or a status symbol of a Hollywood rifle. I'm sure there are hard-use people using these guns, but it baffles me the taxpayer would be on the hook for one of these.
I put several rounds down the rifle. I couldn't see anything outside of cosmetics where an extreme level of detail was shown. It shot previously mentioned ammo into about 1/2 MOA consistently. There were times it was closer to 3/4 MOA. My factory 700 VS in a McMillan was shooting quite a bit tighter. My GA Precision 6.5x47 Lapua was shooting 1/4 MOA for me on the same day. Was it shooter? I don't think so.
The next day, we decided to stretch the legs out a bit and took them to 700 yards. The TacOps would hit the 6" steel plate but there were rounds that missed completely without a condition change. Was it the 168 gr going transonic? Accuracy of the rifle? Or a ghost wind? The other .308 with 175s did fine and obviously the 6.5x47 did as well.
Finally, one of the 168s got stuck in the chamber. A strong thrust of the bolt pulled out the case leaving the Sierra MatchKing stuck in the lands and powder filling the action. This seemed odd since it was a "field gun" designed for that ammo. My friend who owned the rifle called up the maker who said "Oh shoot, it must have been chambered with the OLD reamer". He went on to explain that Federal had changed their ammo and the "new ammo" wasn't right for the chamber. Seemed odd to me, a field gun with such a small margin of error. Seemed even weirder that the ammo wasn't new, rather was quite old.
My friend shipped the rifle back to be rechambered. He function checked it and then sold it to fund a different rifle which was both more accurate and cheaper. I believe at the time, these rifles were priced at around $5,000 using a plain old Rem 700 action. It did not appear anything was done to improve the function, other than a large bolt knob. No side bolt release, no extractor upgrade, etc. But a lot was spent on cosmetics and "fastener timing" that in no way enhanced functionality of the rifle. I believe they are now in the $6000+ range. For that price, one could have an Accuracy International which is certainly a better "field gun" in any way imaginable.
I'm not knocking the smith or his work, but the one example I've experienced was less than stellar and there didn't seem to be any value for the end user. It seemed more like the buyer is buying jewelry or a status symbol of a Hollywood rifle. I'm sure there are hard-use people using these guns, but it baffles me the taxpayer would be on the hook for one of these.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
Well, we will be having our first NBRSA Registered Varmint for Score Match of the year at Tomball this coming Sunday, it will be in the 40’s with a 10 to 15 mph wind.
We will not be shooting keyboards.
We will not be shooting keyboards.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
Now Jackie, that's just crazy talk!
You mean...actually shooting where people are watching and the accuracy/precision results are made known for the Whole Wide World to see? 
Forget about those wind-flag-things and pass the Sierra 168's....burp.
Now I've got to clean the coffee that came out my nose when I read your post off my keyboard...
Good shootin' -Al
TACTICAL OPERATIONS TANGO-51 – FULL REVIEW
It was time to take the latest version of the Tango-51 out for a full test and see how they still hold up.
www.snipercentral.com
308 Match Ammo Comparison – 168gr
Round 1 Group of Ammo Introduction and Test ProceduresThe Test RiflesTest ResultsConclusion and ThoughtsRound 2 Conclusion and ThoughtsRound 3 Conclusion and ThoughtsAddendum #1 Introduction and Te…
www.snipercentral.com
Couple reviews I found that has some average accuracy data posted. Looks like these guns love hsm 168 ammo. One gun was sub 1/4" the other was .37" for average group size. So it looks like they are very dependant on ammo. Note the velocity difference in the second review. Its as I said in the other thread they used a reamer with minimal clearance that puts these bullets right next to or into the lands. Only way you get the same velocity with 4" less barrel.
Would I call these guns 1/4 moa guns? If your only talking about 3 shot groups and you find the right ammo they might get near there and stay near there. They would likely do it with hand loads quite reliably.
AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
What happened to the ".0's and .1's" ?
On the supposed .115 three shot group pictured...there are .30 cal. bullet holes with close to 1/2 a bullet of paper between them. Since most .30 cal. bullet holes make around a .290 hole in the paper, there's already as much 'size' between the holes as they want us to believe the entire group measures.
Here's a 'zero' .30 cal. 5 shot group at 100, for comparison:
And a .119 .30 cal. 5 shot group, again for comparison. This was shot at 200 yds.
Dots can be connected accordingly.....
Good shootin' -Al
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AlNyhus
Silver $$ Contributor
Aren't they supposed to shoot "0's and .1's" with Federal Gold Medal match ammo? 
Here's what that shows:
Here's what that shows:
| Federal 168gr Gold Medal Match | 2694 fps | 9.26 fps | 27 fps | .480″ | .214″ | 30Jun07 |
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