How ''Premium'' is Federal Premium Brass?

[Someone online]

I used federal brass to reload my 270 win. I found that the consistency of the weights were better than Hornady. Mind you these are all factory ammo once fired brass. The federal had a range of under 2 grains difference between heaviest and lightest. The same 270 win cases from Hornady ammo weighed significantly different, having distinctly two different weight groups about 5 grains apart, each group with a spread of 3 grains.
In terms of the number of loadings for federal, I chuck them when the primer pocket is loose based on a primer pocket gauge, I get about 4-5 reloads out of them. The hotter loads definitely killed the primer pockets fast.

I haven't compared how many reloads to hornady since I don't have reload those much.

 

[FNSafari]

IMO if you want good rifle brass to reload buy Lapua or Norma brass and don’t look back. I have no experience with Nosler Alpha Petersen etc.

Star line pistol brass has been good to use and is my preferred. Not used their rifle brass.

 

[Creedmoor02]

Federal brass sucks baaaad!!!

 

[searcher]

It depends on what your use of the brass will be for, in my opinion. If your use does not require you to load it to maximum velocity loads (like 10% off max is ok), I have obtained as accurate groups in some rifles as compared to the "better" brass mentioned (especially after necks were turned). The "flaws" most commonly found on brass are weakened pockets after high pressure or repeated firings, quality of brass used for making the brass (some may be much softer), and neck and/or body walls that are not uniform in thickness. Keeping the load off maximum will make pockets last considerably longer - no matter who makes the brass. Turning the necks solves the neck problem. The uneven thickness in body walls can create "banana" brass that won't be concentric at the neck after sizing, though that is not nearly as common a problem as to avoid the brass. For hunting where ammo could get dampened or handled a lot- having it nickel plated is a big plus in my book- and you can't get that in Lapua. Back in the brass shortage last time around, I converted a bunch of Federal .308 Winchester to .243 brass and the brass shot wicked groups very much as good as any brass I have had. I'd expect your Federal brass to last not as long as Lapua brass - but I'm guessing the cost is commensurate. If I were buying for my varmint rifle, and the Federal were 40% less in cost than Lapua - I'd not hesitate to buy it.

 

[ebb]

I got a bunch of odd ball brass for my 260rem AR10 when there was a shortage back then. It was 243 remington and federal. The federal has 4 loadings through a gas gun and has been full length sized with small base dies all 4 times. A few years ago federal had a story in the bulletin that they now have 2 extra steps to work harden the brass so that the primer pockets last better. i know it gets a bad rap but I have no complaints. It isn't lapua but it works.

 

[Hudge76]

All Federal brass I’ve used is from factory brass that I’ve reloaded, and never an issue. Winchester brass on the other hand, I’ll never buy again! The .338 WM I bought last month the case necks are crooked, and a couple of the .270 Win brass pieces have off centered primer pockets. I’ll stick with Lapua, Hornady, Sig, Starline and Nosler over Federal or Winchester brass.

 

[drop_point]

I used federal brass to reload my 270 win. I found that the consistency of the weights were better than Hornady. Mind you these are all factory ammo once fired brass. The federal had a range of under 2 grains difference between heaviest and lightest. The same 270 win cases from Hornady ammo weighed significantly different, having distinctly two different weight groups about 5 grains apart, each group with a spread of 3 grains.
In terms of the number of loadings for federal, I chuck them when the primer pocket is loose based on a primer pocket gauge, I get about 4-5 reloads out of them. The hotter loads definitely killed the primer pockets fast.

I haven't compared how many reloads to hornady since I don't have reload those much.

I load Federal .308 Win brass. Local brass scrapper gets a lot of it and sells it to me for close to scrap price. I can usually get about 8 or so firings on it. My load with Federal brass seems to work well over brass produced from who knows how many different lots. I fire it in a LaRue OBR and an old 700P. Both rifles will shoot half minute with that brass, which is more than adequate for popping steel out to 1200 yards. Like I say, only thing is the stuff just doesn't last.

 

[SFGUY]

Just a few years ago I called Federal and asked about any difference in quality of their brass that they produced, like whether they produced any match grade brass vs. standard. I was told all their brass all comes off the same production line, so there's really no difference. But of course, nickel plating is simply something done after their brass is formed.

I've fired a lot of Federal's .308 brass and found that they're not quite as uniform as you'd find with Lapua. Federal's brass is a little softer than many others like Lapua or Nosler, which tends to result in fewer reloadings (like I've got 11-14 reloads out of Federal's brass with mostly moderate loads). I got way more reloads on Lapua brass. Other than these differences, brass Federal brass can be comparable to Lapua as far as load results as they had pretty much the same case volumes.

As for any of my Federal nickel plated cases, they too have performed just fine and I've fired them 4 times, which included annealing each time and had turned the necks too. So far, I've not had any issues with any nickel plating flaking off. Here's what they look like:

View attachment 1316335

View attachment 1316336

Jus love that nickel brass with turned necks, picture. Federal brass is softer. On the other hand all brass gets work hardened. Where others need annealing more often, Federal has not needed it in my guns for about 10 reloads. ( How do i know? when i start getting signs, split necks, etc) Primer pockets can open up some. I have had trouble losing primers on new Mfr Federal ammo so it happens on new or reloads also. After a few reloads, it seems like Federal works fine as the brass is a little harder. As long as the primers stay put, it is ok. Bolt guns are not the problem that gas guns are over losing primers, but all guns are trouble if leaking gas out the primer pocket. Depending on how much brass you have which is Federal, you may want to keep it or trade it.

 

[wildcatter]

A lot of folks reload, but there are only a few that know how to reload! The gun will go bang for everyone that shoots, but only a few will go bang and hit the same place every time!

Sorry but I have competed with far to many over the decades that think cheap will work and apply that to there technique,,,,, they make don't many appearances before the disappear! Most find small local matches and try and consider themselves successful? In that scenario maybe a few are! But I have never seen anyone successful in real competition find a way to do it with cheap brass!!! It will not repeat if it is ever capable of being competitive in the first place!

If you want to play, and like hearing "bang" and struggle to find loads that just drill little holes loading after loading, and brass lasting less than quality brass will,,,,,, use it!

If you use a 243 to kill ground hogs at 200 yards and don't mind misses now and then past that,,, use it.

If your a big game hunter using a big magnum and only plan on shots inside 200 yards use it.

If you just like to pray and spray lead all over the country side,,, use it.

BUT,,,,, if you want to make your time working up quality reloads, that are not limited to just a couple hundred yards to be reliable, and plan on loading your brass many times, with no change in your load,,,, throw the chit away!!!

Sorry, but to think different is just listening to BS, history don't lie, and facts don't change, neither does good brass! One fact will never change, and that is,, good brass aint cheap and always win's,, and cheap brass will never be good, and when it counts it never win's! I can mark anything I want as premium,, but in real life, it is proven in the most demanding situations,,, and that is where the best play, and trust me, they spend far to much money doing what they do to buy cheap chit that don't work, they buy what does, because thats what it takes to do what they are trying to do!

Trust me check out what works for them, and the answer is obvious why you won't see the brass bullets and primers many call good, let alone great! I hate being honest but this is stuff that is asked to much, and cluttered up with approval of members that are simply just reloader's, and could greatly increase their results if the would just take heed from those here that know how to reload, and have a true understanding of why what does work is good!

 

[searcher]

If you use a 243 to kill ground hogs at 200 yards and don't mind misses now and then past that,,, use it.

If your a big game hunter using a big magnum and only plan on shots inside 200 yards use it.

If you just like to pray and spray lead all over the country side,,, use it.

Wow - I'd hate to hear what you would say about the Remington, Winchester and FEDERAL - not to mention machine-gun fired lake City brass I and my buddies use to shoot the heads off ground squirrels at 300 yards. If your adages were even remotely true - no factory ammo from our largest domestic ammo manufacturers would be suitable for hunting beyond 200 yards. Even ground hogs are pretty freaking big for a typical varmint rifle. I've never seen factory ammo using the same brass you deplore perform so poorly that a groundhog couldn't be routinely hit at 200 yards. I have, however, seen many rifles, scopes and shooters who were incapable. Perhaps all those years of shooting and competing.............

 

[wildcatter]

Wow - I'd hate to hear what you would say about the Remington, Winchester and FEDERAL - not to mention machine-gun fired lake City brass I and my buddies use to shoot the heads off ground squirrels at 300 yards. If your adages were even remotely true - no factory ammo from our largest domestic ammo manufacturers would be suitable for hunting beyond 200 yards. Even ground hogs are pretty freaking big for a typical varmint rifle. I've never seen factory ammo using the same brass you deplore perform so poorly that a groundhog couldn't be routinely hit at 200 yards. I have, however, seen many rifles, scopes and shooters who were incapable. Perhaps all those years of shooting and competing.............

Nobody said they were not affective out to 200 to reliably take ground hogs, but beyond that consistency will prove better with quality brass!! My BR with Lapua brass will seldom miss at 500 yards, and I will easily get a dozen loadings running 62 grainers at 3500 fps in them, but change to Remington BR brass and them same loads not only open up, but 500 yards becomes a challenge, and there will be misses, but two firings are hard to get without primers falling out!! Fact,, I've proven it more than once with various lots of both! Same with 257 AI using Remington 257 Roberts brass I get the same results, and neck down 8x57 brass, I now have consistency, and durability, federal brass,,, is on par with Remington, only the rem is hard, the federal to soft.

Anyone who has shot lake city brass knows, taking the heads off of ground squirrels at three hundred yards are 50/50 at best even when you sort it! But lets keep it real! how many IBS, NBRSA, matches have been won in the part 20 years with Remington brass, or Federal brass, Winchester or Lake City???? check it out facts don't lye! Not saying your lying but I will assure you better results are easily achieved with better brass than your using!! Enjoy split necks with it as well, played that game years ago but never again!

I've shot Benchrest in both classes for over 3 decades, and I can assure you, there are no finer marksman on this planet,, another fact. I wonder how many times a record was ever broken in the past 20 years in any class using the brass you mentioned,,,,, kind of hard to argue with facts!!!

Like I said, I can kill at any yardage, with any brass,,,,, I just prefer to do it more consistently than some,, and the only way to do that is with quality components. You will never win on the big stage with the brass you speak of,,, that is very well documented!!! Or maybe you think records don't mean anything?

 

[searcher]

Nobody said they were not affective out to 200 to reliably take ground hogs, but beyond that consistency will prove better with quality brass!! My BR with Lapua brass will seldom miss at 500 yards, and I will easily get a dozen loadings running 62 grainers at 3500 fps in them, but change to Remington BR brass and them same loads not only open up, but 500 yards becomes a challenge, and there will be misses, but two firings are hard to get without primers falling out!! Fact,, I've proven it more than once with various lots of both! Same with 257 AI using Remington 257 Roberts brass I get the same results, and neck down 8x57 brass, I now have consistency, and durability, federal brass,,, is on par with Remington, only the rem is hard, the federal to soft.

Anyone who has shot lake city brass knows, taking the heads off of ground squirrels at three hundred yards are 50/50 at best even when you sort it! But lets keep it real! how many IBS, NBRSA, matches have been won in the part 20 years with Remington brass, or Federal brass, Winchester or Lake City???? check it out facts don't lye! Not saying your lying but I will assure you better results are easily achieved with better brass than your using!! Enjoy split necks with it as well, played that game years ago but never again!

I've shot Benchrest in both classes for over 3 decades, and I can assure you, there are no finer marksman on this planet,, another fact. I wonder how many times a record was ever broken in the past 20 years in any class using the brass you mentioned,,,,, kind of hard to argue with facts!!!

Like I said, I can kill at any yardage, with any brass,,,,, I just prefer to do it more consistently than some,, and the only way to do that is with quality components. You will never win on the big stage with the brass you speak of,,, that is very well documented!!! Or maybe you think records don't mean anything?

Wildcatter - I mean no disrespect - but very few hunters would load their brass as hot as us bench rest shooters do. And it certainly isn't loaded like that in factory ammo. That does not diminish the fact that "non Lapua" brass can excel for the purpose intended - and that is not benchrest-pressure loading. As a benchrest shooter, you know that he who rules the wind wins the matches. High-volume varmint hunting is all about ruling the wind - and every shot is different - not a pre-calculated distance with wind flags, a toggle rest and a solid concrete bench. You seem to think that only benchrest shooters are excellent shooters and capable of winning a benchrest match. I can tell you there are a great many shooters that can read the wind like nobody's business, firing many thousands of rounds a year. They don't whip your ass because they don't shoot in registered competition using the gear you have. So, all you have to measure yourself against is yourself and those who do shoot in the matches. Substituting your Remington brass with the same Lapua load - as you cited - and expecting it to shoot as well without tuning the load is pretty ridiculous in itself. Good fortune to you.

 

[wildcatter]

Wildcatter - I mean no disrespect - but very few hunters would load their brass as hot as us bench rest shooters do. And it certainly isn't loaded like that in factory ammo. That does not diminish the fact that "non Lapua" brass can excel for the purpose intended - and that is not benchrest-pressure loading. As a benchrest shooter, you know that he who rules the wind wins the matches. High-volume varmint hunting is all about ruling the wind - and every shot is different - not a pre-calculated distance with wind flags, a toggle rest and a solid concrete bench. You seem to think that only benchrest shooters are excellent shooters and capable of winning a benchrest match. I can tell you there are a great many shooters that can read the wind like nobody's business, firing many thousands of rounds a year. They don't whip your ass because they don't shoot in registered competition using the gear you have. So, all you have to measure yourself against is yourself and those who do shoot in the matches. Substituting your Remington brass with the same Lapua load - as you cited - and expecting it to shoot as well without tuning the load is pretty ridiculous in itself. Good fortune to you.

I thought this was in reference to the quality of the equipment we use,, and if you think the quality the op speaks of measures up to what most considers premium,,, I'm sorry, my statement remains the same,, it just isn't capable of the consistency, or the longevity I consider premium!

I have not shot in competition in a few years, but I refuse to spend my money on inferior components, when I can spend the same money, and not only consistently get better results, with more loadings, and tell myself it is premium,, sorry but I learned a long time ago the difference, and refuse to offer the disinformation many try and offer with if's!

Sorry, and I mean no disrespect,, but facts are facts! It is inferior to the brass I will continue to use, and when my brass is no longer useable it will have consistently given me better results, and have loaded more rounds!! The key words here are consistently more accurate,,, and more rounds!!! with same number of cases!! to say different I would be lying!

Read what the op asked, and if you think it measures up to Lapua, or even Peters,,, you obviously are not offering an honest answer to his question! Sorry Better is Better, and calling it premium does not make it better!! Why would anyone tell him it as good???????????

 

[searcher]

I thought this was in reference to the quality of the equipment we use,, and if you think the quality the op speaks of measures up to what most considers premium,,, I'm sorry, my statement remains the same,, it just isn't capable of the consistency, or the longevity I consider premium!

I have not shot in competition in a few years, but I refuse to spend my money on inferior components, when I can spend the same money, and not only consistently get better results, with more loadings, and tell myself it is premium,, sorry but I learned a long time ago the difference, and refuse to offer the disinformation many try and offer with if's!

Sorry, and I mean no disrespect,, but facts are facts! It is inferior to the brass I will continue to use, and when my brass is no longer useable it will have consistently given me better results, and have loaded more rounds!! The key words here are consistently more accurate,,, and more rounds!!! with same number of cases!! to say different I would be lying!

Read what the op asked, and if you think it measures up to Lapua, or even Peters,,, you obviously are not offering an honest answer to his question! Sorry Better is Better, and calling it premium does not make it better!! Why would anyone tell him it as good???????????

Yes- we do differ. I still think those three statements you made -and which I highlighted are no less ridiculous - however much you love Lapua or any other brand. It is one thing to say Lapua is a better quality and more enduring product (which I wholeheartedly agree), but to put the other brands down as though they can't even be trusted for big game hunting and so on as you did - is just plain untrue. now - if those other brands don't work for you because you want to load them waaay beyond manufacturers recommendations to where the primers fall out in two shots - maybe that does, in fact, apply to you.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Yes- we do differ. I still think those three statements you made -and which I highlighted are no less ridiculous - however much you love Lapua or any other brand. It is one thing to say Lapua is a better quality and more enduring product (which I wholeheartedly agree), but to put the other brands down as though they can't even be trusted for big game hunting and so on as you did - is just plain untrue. now - if those other brands don't work for you because you want to load them waaay beyond manufacturers recommendations to where the primers fall out in two shots - maybe that does, in fact, apply to you.

A few years back when I started precision reloading I was curious how much different various brands of .308 brass was in terms of their construction and their ability to perform. So as I went shooting at my local public range I collected various .308 brass to inspect and reload. I have a collection sitting in my cabinet now (like: PMC, PPU, Armscore, Perfecta, Setpoint, WCC-Western, Norma, LC, Barns, Hornady, Remington, Winchester, Federal (including those nickle plate brass I showed in the previous post); and what I use mostly: Lapua and Peterson). I measured them, including actual case volumes, and precision prepped them, which included annealing, uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes and even turning the necks. (as an old retired Vet, I've got lots of time on my hands ) After all that, I loaded them up and shot them to see if they can or can't perform as well my Lapua brass. Well, to my surprise, actually, they did as as well as my Lapua brass on paper giving me sub .5" groups. Now that may not be a good standard to go by for BR shooters, but I'd say that's pretty good. I will point out that a lot of those brands are indeed pretty inconsistent in the measurements I took and for some I'd throw out outliers that were just too for off. And obviously, it takes a lot of work to get those other brands to be as consistent as the likes of Lapua. My processed Federal brass along with some PPU and Perfecta are what I'll shoot for practice at short range. But I do like my Lapua brass most. . . mainly because less prep work is needed.

 

[wildcatter]

Yes I agree with Straightshooter to the degree yes, if you want to throw away brass and spends time manicuring them to get to the level they will produce good results, sure you can, how many you have to throw away is anybody's guess? But be assured if you throw out brass to make your premium premium,, we are talking about junk! If it weren't junk, we wouldn't pitch it!

Now as far searchers comment that just because it won't hold up to the way Lapua will without expanding to useless dimensions,, this qualifies as inferior to. Sorry when one works at any pressure the fact remines, one will last after the other fails, your just talking how much more. If you lower the stress on the load in order to take it your settling for less! I said if you want to make reservations in what or how you load,, how well it will work,, or the added cost to use it, you might be happy, it just wont last as long or give as good a results. So that makes it inferior to one, period, the only conclusion that can be made,,,, It will never be as good! How is it wont take the same treatment, making anything an equal,, or as good????

I agree with everything you both say, but I would have to tell folks lies to say its good,, no its not, it will work,, if you eliminate some of it, and as you continue to load it, it will change and require changes to obtain the initial results. Sorry but these are facts. In the long run it will cost as much if not more than using better quality in the beginning, and require replacement sooner. It is no different than anything else,,, you get what you pay for with the results to go with it.

 

[searcher]

A few years back when I started precision reloading I was curious how much different various brands of .308 brass was in terms of their construction and their ability to perform. So as I went shooting at my local public range I collected various .308 brass to inspect and reload. I have a collection sitting in my cabinet now (like: PMC, PPU, Armscore, Perfecta, Setpoint, WCC-Western, Norma, LC, Barns, Hornady, Remington, Winchester, Federal (including those nickle plate brass I showed in the previous post); and what I use mostly: Lapua and Peterson). I measured them, including actual case volumes, and precision prepped them, which included annealing, uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes and even turning the necks. (as an old retired Vet, I've got lots of time on my hands ) After all that, I loaded them up and shot them to see if they can or can't perform as well my Lapua brass. Well, to my surprise, actually, they did as as well as my Lapua brass on paper giving me sub .5" groups. Now that may not be a good standard to go by for BR shooters, but I'd say that's pretty good. I will point out that a lot of those brands are indeed pretty inconsistent in the measurements I took and for some I'd throw out outliers that were just too for off. And obviously, it takes a lot of work to get those other brands to be as consistent as the likes of Lapua. My processed Federal brass along with some PPU and Perfecta are what I'll shoot for practice at short range. But I do like my Lapua brass most. . . mainly because less prep work is needed.

I smiled as I read your post - as I too have wondered about the various manufacturers and have had too much time on my hands in the past. In short, I was quite impressed with most brands of brass I put to the test, even some of the imported stuff I had previously dismissed as junk - as to how good it could actually be made to shoot (accuracy-wise). All brass was annealed, necks turned, primer pockets leveled, flash holes uniformed, major "bananas" tossed out, etc., then loaded up with a ladder of proven loads. I think my least favorite brass was actually Remington. Very soft stuff in the lots I shot. I know lots of folks might say that is all a lot of work to do on brass to make it shoot as good as Lapua - but I do all of that to my Lapua anyway - so no additional time for me there. The idea was, as you did - just to see what it could do. If loaded 10% off max loads, I found that all the brass I tried would last at least six to ten firings. Some considerably more. One of the tests was on 7 mm Rem Mag brass. I was able to get 14 firings on Winchester brass on "high book" loads before pockets loosened - so maybe 8 to 10 loadings of brass life was probably about right with the warm load I was using. My smallest 5-shot group was in my .243 Winchester using Federal brass, at .068"! I have had 6PPC and 6 BR barrels shooting Lapua brass that had a hard time squeaking out a group like that (or never did). I think most folks who bag on most commercial (and Military) brass just never gave it a real go. It took the brass shortage last time around for me to learn how good most factory brass really is. I'll still stick to Lapua - where I can get many, many firings on my cases for my target rifles and high-volume varmint rifles - but for big and small game hunting where not many rounds are fired from the rifle every year - I usually use Federal, Winchester, Nosler or military and I go afield confident in my gear. I do know that if I were to miss a critter at 200 yards - it was because of me - not my brass.

 

[searcher]

Yes I agree with Straightshooter to the degree yes, if you want to throw away brass and spends time manicuring them to get to the level they will produce good results, sure you can, how many you have to throw away is anybody's guess? But be assured if you throw out brass to make your premium premium,, we are talking about junk! If it weren't junk, we wouldn't pitch it!

Now as far searchers comment that just because it won't hold up to the way Lapua will without expanding to useless dimensions,, this qualifies as inferior to. Sorry when one works at any pressure the fact remines, one will last after the other fails, your just talking how much more. If you lower the stress on the load in order to take it your settling for less! I said if you want to make reservations in what or how you load,, how well it will work,, or the added cost to use it, you might be happy, it just wont last as long or give as good a results. So that makes it inferior to one, period, the only conclusion that can be made,,,, It will never be as good! How is it wont take the same treatment, making anything an equal,, or as good????

I agree with everything you both say, but I would have to tell folks lies to say its good,, no its not, it will work,, if you eliminate some of it, and as you continue to load it, it will change and require changes to obtain the initial results. Sorry but these are facts. In the long run it will cost as much if not more than using better quality in the beginning, and require replacement sooner. It is no different than anything else,,, you get what you pay for with the results to go with it.

Yes I agree with Straightshooter to the degree yes, if you want to throw away brass and spends time manicuring them to get to the level they will produce good results, sure you can, how many you have to throw away is anybody's guess? But be assured if you throw out brass to make your premium premium,, we are talking about junk! If it weren't junk, we wouldn't pitch it!

Now as far searchers comment that just because it won't hold up to the way Lapua will without expanding to useless dimensions,, this qualifies as inferior to. Sorry when one works at any pressure the fact remines, one will last after the other fails, your just talking how much more. If you lower the stress on the load in order to take it your settling for less! I said if you want to make reservations in what or how you load,, how well it will work,, or the added cost to use it, you might be happy, it just wont last as long or give as good a results. So that makes it inferior to one, period, the only conclusion that can be made,,,, It will never be as good! How is it wont take the same treatment, making anything an equal,, or as good????

I agree with everything you both say, but I would have to tell folks lies to say its good,, no its not, it will work,, if you eliminate some of it, and as you continue to load it, it will change and require changes to obtain the initial results. Sorry but these are facts. In the long run it will cost as much if not more than using better quality in the beginning, and require replacement sooner. It is no different than anything else,,, you get what you pay for with the results to go with it.

Read my February 18th post above (written before I called you out on your statements). Could have saved you telling me all of this (again). It must be very demoralizing to everyone who believes you that everything except Lapua is junk. I feel for them.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I smiled as I read your post - as I too have wondered about the various manufacturers and have had too much time on my hands in the past. In short, I was quite impressed with most brands of brass I put to the test, even some of the imported stuff I had previously dismissed as junk - as to how good it could actually be made to shoot (accuracy-wise). All brass was annealed, necks turned, primer pockets leveled, flash holes uniformed, major "bananas" tossed out, etc., then loaded up with a ladder of proven loads. I think my least favorite brass was actually Remington. Very soft stuff in the lots I shot. I know lots of folks might say that is all a lot of work to do on brass to make it shoot as good as Lapua - but I do all of that to my Lapua anyway - so no additional time for me there. The idea was, as you did - just to see what it could do. If loaded 10% off max loads, I found that all the brass I tried would last at least six to ten firings. Some considerably more. One of the tests was on 7 mm Rem Mag brass. I was able to get 14 firings on Winchester brass on "high book" loads before pockets loosened - so maybe 8 to 10 loadings of brass life was probably about right with the warm load I was using. My smallest 5-shot group was in my .243 Winchester using Federal brass, at .068"! I have had 6PPC and 6 BR barrels shooting Lapua brass that had a hard time squeaking out a group like that (or never did). I think most folks who bag on most commercial (and Military) brass just never gave it a real go. It took the brass shortage last time around for me to learn how good most factory brass really is. I'll still stick to Lapua - where I can get many, many firings on my cases for my target rifles and high-volume varmint rifles - but for big and small game hunting where not many rounds are fired from the rifle every year - I usually use Federal, Winchester, Nosler or military and I go afield confident in my gear. I do know that if I were to miss a critter at 200 yards - it was because of me - not my brass.

Hmmm??? Interesting to me that your best group was with Federal brass as my .308 Federal brass (fired 5 times) also gave me my 2 best ever 5 shot groups (.017" and .071") using somewhat hot loads and primer pockets are so far just fine. It only took me about 10,000 rounds to achieve that. One batch of Federal brass I got 11 firings before they gave up the ghost. I actually like my Federal brass, as they've performed well and they didn't cost me a cent to acquire.

 

[wildcatter]

Read my February 18th post above (written before I called you out on your statements). Could have saved you telling me all of this (again). It must be very demoralizing to everyone who believes you that everything except Lapua is junk. I feel for them.

No one said everything but Lapua is junk, but the fact you wont deny what I did say, "no other brass is setting world records with ammunition it is being used for, and standing up the loads providing them match after match" it is obvious,, it may not be junk, but it cannot measure up to the brass including Alpha and Peters, and the Starline I have used. As far as lasting, I have 454 cassul brass that is loaded hotter than any 308 or 243, that has lasted more than 12 loadings! Trust me, revolver brass is not what I call strong brass!

Sorry but I have 6BR, 6x47 Lapua, 22-250 and 243 win brass with Lapua headstamp as well 223, that all have been stood on extremely hard well over book loads that have over 20 loadings on every one,, and still going strong and delivering well under .25" accuracy!

Like I said, till you use it, you will never understand, But in 67 years of reloading and competing, I do know and haver proven the "SUPERIORITY" of the brass I will use from here out, because I have witnessed the difference! This is making an understatement!

Now please prove me wrong and show me these records, with your opinion of premium brass?????

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That's kinda what I said!