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Hard carbon, solvents, and benefit of a bore scope

The whole removing metal thing is really about the edges of the rifling. We are running a compound, patch, etc., over what is supposed to be a precision edge. Doing that is going to have some negative impact on the edge, just like if you did it to a knife. The other concern is using too much compound, or using compound in the wrong way, is negating the lapping that has already been done to a precision barrel - obviously less of a concern on an unlapped barrel.

The counter is that all this stuff is less abrasive than the bullet screaming down the pipe. Even the "rub it on plastic and you will see it does not scratch" is garbage. I myself have done this to clear up clouded lenses. Yes it did not leave visible scratches, but it did remove stuff. Over time the "clear" goes away and you can see where the compound stripped away a fine layer of material. The no visible scratches is a human eye thing. It scratches plenty, just not that we can see. If not, how the heck would a compound be any better than liquid?

Fire lapping on the other hand, that is taking material away in a measurable way. Even Tubbs' instructions for his cleaning bullets say the process removes up to 0.0003 inches of material. Is that a lot? maybe, maybe not, but it is removing material.

The barrel manufactures don't help me much either. They give the list of do's and don'ts, but with all the distortion we Internet scholars put out there it is hard to say of the manufactures lists are because it matters or because they don't want people doing stuff then blaming them for a bad barrel. I for one would not blame them if it is for the latter.

I am no engineer when it comes to this stuff but I do think something that attracts more bullet jacket or constricts the movement of the bullet is negative that keeps getting worse until you do something about it. At that point we are likely trading temporary relief for a less perfect bullet travel down clean grooves.

Great post.

Stupid high speed bullets and their abrasiveness.... ruining our barrels. Not to mention that flame thrower arc welder amount of flame coming out of the case.

I have the Final Finish system at my house. Apparently their is a radical difference between the #1 grit and the #4 in the kit.

Like the difference between 100 grit and 1000 grit. As far as removing metal.
 
Nothing will gum up a trigger better

Why do you want to put it on your trigger? Do not use it on your CM barrels, Stainless Steel is fine, may sound funny, but water Iis it's neutralizer, probably can use others.Take a carboned up stainless steel muzzle brake and try it. Yes, definitely keep it out of your trigger, no different than what precautions you take to keep other cleaning solvent out of your triggers.
 
Never tried CLR on barrels - MSDS info says CLR will react with metals except stainless & chrome. My guess is the black stuff inside barrels has much metallic content and the CLR would dissolve/react with it to the point of softening the whole works enabling removal with a brush or patches. The CLR stuff might not be as bad is the MSDS indicates because info on the container refers to cleaning up calcium deposits in coffee makers using CLR diluted with water then flushing with water to remove and neutralize. The CLR stuff contains lactic acid and that has been used to enable forgery guys to alter documents - like ink removal. When used with caution CLR seems like a good way to attack the black stuff in your stainless barrel but don't slosh it into other parts especially triggers with precise fitting parts, edges, springs and aluminum housings - lighter fluid for the triggers.
 
I find JB works well enough when used on a tight patch and you put some work into it. It’s not magic, but you can see it working with a bore scope. That’s with the powders I use, at least. Mileage may vary.

I also agree that it will not remove metal. Chuck a piece of steel in a drill and go at it. You will not be able to get the dimensions to change. I’ve tried this with a mini lathe - nothing happens at all. You will die of exhaustion before you wear a tenth out of your bore with JB.

Another thing to note: JB always turns black. Rub a patch of JB on the clean exterior of the barrel and it will turn black. Color is no indication of whether or not it’s doing anything.
 
I find JB works well enough when used on a tight patch and you put some work into it. It’s not magic, but you can see it working with a bore scope. That’s with the powders I use, at least. Mileage may vary.

I also agree that it will not remove metal. Chuck a piece of steel in a drill and go at it. You will not be able to get the dimensions to change. I’ve tried this with a mini lathe - nothing happens at all. You will die of exhaustion before you wear a tenth out of your bore with JB.

Another thing to note: JB always turns black. Rub a patch of JB on the clean exterior of the barrel and it will turn black. Color is no indication of whether or not it’s doing anything.

Another good post!! I appreciate people who actually use their minds and test things using a bit of logic.

The world needs more good science and less dogma when comes to technical things. From my observation many of these discussions become something like discussing pagan religions than science. People believe whatever they choose to believe, even when easily proven other wise. Oh, and they will fight you like the Pharisees... even when the proof is right there.

Personal belief is fine. But when it is opposed to something that is easily proven (as in the case of JB removing metal) a person is no longer entitled to believe something that simply isn't true.
 
JB's abrasive is garnet, a hard, sharp edged mineral with a hardness of 7.5-8 (diamond is 10) - real fine grit in the JB paste as opposed to the garnet stuck onto sandpaper. I use the Flitz bore cleaner stuff - they claim it is non-abrasive but it sure feels gritty to me - could not find MSDS info as to kind of abrasive. Possibly, periodically wiping off the coated cleaning rod and minimizing contact between the garnet abrasive, hard cleaning rod and bore would help to prevent wear - contact with bore and abrasive only on patch. Some of the bore polishes contain diatomaceous earths, from the bodies of tiny dead siliceous sea creatures - Radiolaria - they look like round blobs with tiny spikes. Possibly, the Remington 40X stuff uses diatomaceous earth abrasives - never heard of diatomaceous sand paper.

I think JB applied on a patch would never remove steel but between two hard surfaces it would.
 
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It's also used as a catalyst, which is probably how they are using it and thus say it is non abrasive. But, it is an abrasive.
 
Found a new carbon remover today. Actually the credit goes to an f- class shooter I follow named Keith. He has a you tube and Patreon channel I follow called ”winning in the wind”. The product is called Free All. Did my regular cleaning regime with patch out then iosso bore paste. Still had a lot of hard carbon. Applied JB bore paste, still hard carbon. Soaked the barrel for about 30 minutes with free all then bronze brush with free all and the results were amazing. Took the barrel down to steel. Best hard carbon remover I’ve ever used.
 
Found a new carbon remover today. Actually the credit goes to an f- class shooter I follow named Keith. He has a you tube and Patreon channel I follow called ”winning in the wind”. The product is called Free All. Did my regular cleaning regime with patch out then iosso bore paste. Still had a lot of hard carbon. Applied JB bore paste, still hard carbon. Soaked the barrel for about 30 minutes with free all then bronze brush with free all and the results were amazing. Took the barrel down to steel. Best hard carbon remover I’ve ever used.
I’ve been reading about Free-All lately, so I bought some last night. I hope it’s half as good as people are claiming it is on removing stubborn carbon!
 

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