Bad Lapua cases? (Nosler great)

[BringBackThe80s]

LAPUA

I purchased a 100-count of new Lapua .223 brass on Gunbroker. Weight consistency was decent at 92.2 min - 93.4 max before case prep (1.3% variation). Then I started measuring and prepping.

OAL's ranged from 1.73" to 1.752", with most in the 1.74x" range (SAMMI max OAL is 1.760", trim length 1.750".) Headspace / shoulder length was just as bad. Using my comparator, factory ammo, or cases sized to sit perfectly in a .223 go/go-go gauge measures 1.456" - 1.457". These Lapua cases ranged from 1.422" -1.467". I also found a number of cases with very uneven mouths, obviously higher on one side than the other. During trimming, I discovered that was a result of variation in neck wall thickness visible to the naked eye. Another had a flash hole that looked like it had been swaged/punched twice, one correctly, then a second off center and not quite penetrating the web. (See pics.)

Despite most shoulders being too short, most of the cases did not go all the way into the gauge. That gave me hope that resizing might add some OAL and shoulder length, so I full-length resized everything, then trimmed, chamferred, and deburred. That helped, leaving me with ~5 cases with shoulders < 1.447" (the firing pin wouldn't even mark the first 3, loaded with minimal charges, so I pulled and discarded all 5). After resizing, 17 more cases were overly short but still fire-formable at 1.448" to 1.453". The rest I got up to at least 1.454", which is within 4/1000th of target shoulder length height for this rifle.

NOSLER

In contrast, I ordered a 50-vount box of Nosler Custom cases from a major reloading supplier. They weighed 91.2gr min, 92.0gr max (.85% variation). Shoulder / headspace was 1.456" to 1.4575" and OAL was 1.747" to 1.452" -- in other words, both at +/- 1/1000th of SAAMI specs. Case mouths all perfectly trimmed, chamferred, and deburred, with primer pockets square, uniform, and good flash holes that yield no shavings to my uniformer. In short, they were almost ad good out of the box as my tedious single-stage case prep yields.

THOUGHTS?

I have only fired half of the Lapua cases a single time, mainly to get them in shape for load testing and accuracy. Maybe they will be more durable than the Nosler brass. However, this experience has me inclined to order more Nosler brass and not search for any more Lapua.

Of note, I also ordered 100 Lapua .308Win cases from the same supplier, and (without having measured shoulders yet) appear as precise and uniform as the Nosler .223 brass.

If the Lapua brass was not headstamped and had not been in a sealed box, I would suspect counterfeit or rejected cases. Anybody ever had an experience like that with Lapua brass?

[Edited to correct decimal]

 

[RustyInBend]

Did the cases come in the original Lapua blue box? Were they factory-sealed? Is it possible you got a "reject batch" from another larger lot of new cases? While I don't reload 223, I have literally "hundreds" of Lapua cases in 300-PRC and 338-LM, and they're gorgeous, without exception. If blue-box sealed, I'd contact Lapua. If "baggied" from a larger lot, you're kind of stuck with these.

 

[gambleone]

The headstamp just doesn't look normal. It seems to have a rough unfinished look to it.
Anybody else seeing this

 

[BringBackThe80s]

Did the cases come in the original Lapua blue box? Were they factory-sealed? Is it possible you got a "reject batch" from another larger lot of new cases? While I don't reload 223, I have literally "hundreds" of Lapua cases in 300-PRC and 338-LM, and they're gorgeous, without exception. If blue-box sealed, I'd contact Lapua. If "baggied" from a larger lot, you're kind of stuck with these.

I ordered from an individual on GunBroker, not a dealer or supplier. They were in 50-count heat-sealed bags inside the Lapua box, and I think I had to cut the box label/seal. But it was several months from receiving and opening the order until I started measuring them and discovered the flaws and lack of uniformity, so I cannot remember with certainty. Given that, I don't think I will try to go back on him or Lapua. But it was definitely not consistent with the great things I have heard about Lapua brass.

 

[Gargoyle]

Although I haven't bought .223 Lapua, this 223 batch is not customary of Lapua quality I've been used to for over the past 20yrs.

 

[Bill K]

Numerous folks have found that Lapua has went down hill the past few years.

 

[Chubbs]

Never had cases in heat sealed bags or 50 count ? Sounds like someone re packaged them from the seconds pile.

 

[stevenpoplin]

As far as Nosler brass goes, I used to live over there and around eight or nine years ago I knew a couple guys that worked there. I was told that thier brass was made by Norma. I shot some in a couple of rifles at the time and it seemed to be similar to Norma, softer than other brass. Nosler sorts, preps, and culls that brass so it's ready to load. That doesn't make it a higher quality than Lapua.
I herd form only one person that bought Lapua brass that had problems with neck wall consistancy, and I suggested he send it back. One should inspect any brass they buy and if it's substandard send it back.
Lapua is, and has been since it appeared oround here, superior to any other brass I have ever used. Now I hear that Pederson and Alpha are making brass equally as tough and consistant. But I'll belive it after I try and compare some.
It's common for reloading brass to be short from base to shoulder datum and overall length, it is meant to fit in every chamber. Chambers vary more than most would think.
The last blue box of Lapua 223, or any calber, brass I bought was loose inside the box, not in a plastic bag, and didn't look anything like yours.
With enough firings, neck turning, weighing, sorting, annealing, sizing and culling, one can make some pretty good brass out of just about any brand. That's how it was done back in the day.

 

[divingin]

Never had cases in heat sealed bags or 50 count ? Sounds like someone re packaged them from the seconds pile.

My Lapua has always loose within the sealed box. I do not recall ever seeing the concentric rings on the case base as in the third pic, nor do the flash holes resemble anything I've seen on Lapua.

I don't remember what the normal Lapua headstamp is on 223, but do they use lower case in the "Rem" stamping? Looks odd considering everything else is caps.

 

[dkhunt14]

I ordered from an individual on GunBroker, not a dealer or supplier. They were in 50-count heat-sealed bags inside the Lapua box, and I think I had to cut the box label/seal. But it was several months from receiving and opening the order until I started measuring them and discovered the flaws and lack of uniformity, so I cannot remember with certainty. Given that, I don't think I will try to go back on him or Lapua. But it was definitely not consistent with the great things I have heard about Lapua brass.

Every lot of Lapua brass I ever bought was in 100 counts, they were never sealed in a plastic bag, but always loose in the box. I beleve you got leftovers from a brass sorting of a larger batch. Matt

 

[Geezedtee]

I suspect they're cheap rip offs! Lapua never seal in 50 bags, and they drill the flash holes. Even if they were the left overs from sorting brass the head stamps would not be that bad.

 

[6bra1k]

quit bad mouthing lapua for your mistake.
lapua does not BAG brass inside a blue box
THEY SELL 100 RD blue boxes, not 50 rd bags
lapua use to OUTSOURCE 223 brass as it was considered less than match as a round.
with enough input from users lapua now produces MATCH 223 BRASS.
that is either knock off or old and odds and ends
may i suggest you try buying some lapua brass from a lapua dealer and then come back

 

[Ned Ludd]

Lapua .223 Rem brass flash holes are not drilled.

The last Lot# of 1000 .223 Rem cases I purchased from Lapua three or four years ago had about one out of every 4 or 5 cases that was not only a little bit heavier, they were wwwaaayyy heavier. Enough so that velocity in the heavier cases increased by about 20-30 fps with the same charge weight/primer due to the smaller case volume. I have since been using Norma .223 Rem brass, which so far has worked quite well for me. The Norma cases require a bit more work inside than Lapua to remove flashing from around the flash hole. However, the weight and dimensional measurements seem to be pretty consistent, and the precision of my handloads is indistinguishable from Lapua brass. That has not been the case with some other brands of .223 brass I briefly experimented with.

Was that last Lot# of Lapua brass I purchased an anomaly/outlier? For me it was. All previous Lot #s had been very good. Yet I have come across anecdotal information from time to time such as described in this post suggesting Lapau's QC may have occasional issues. That might be understandable in the current climate where manufacturers are struggling to keep up with demand. However, such was not the case at the time I purchased that last Lot #.

With regard to the OPs specific case, I have never seen Lapua brass packed in plastic bags. However, I have always ordered 1000 cases at a time, which have always come loose inside the standard blue box. One thing I notice about the headstamp illustrated in the OP is that the word "MATCH" is inverted with respect to the Lapua .223 brass I have (i.e. the word "MATCH" is upside down with respect to "LAPUA"). I have no idea whether this is simply a change in Lapua's headstamp design since the last time I purchased some.

 

[D-4297]

Though I don't do much loading for .223/5.56 ; I have over 800 rounds of Lapua .308 SRP for my TR rifle , and just bought another 400 for Match use only . The latest batch was all the same lot # , and came in the Blue box , packaged loosely . No plastic bag . Upon checking this brass to get it ready for the FCNC , I checked Base to Shoulder length , using a Whidden guage on my B/S calipers , and over 100 cases from all four boxes were within .001 ,and fit my chamber like a glove . I stopped checking , and started prepping .The over-whelming majority of F-class competitors , shoot Lapua for very simple reasons . Quality , consistency , and Durability . Sorry to hear about your issues , but that's not Lapua standards .

 

[BringBackThe80s]

quit bad mouthing lapua for your mistake.
lapua does not BAG brass inside a blue box
THEY SELL 100 RD blue boxes, not 50 rd bags
lapua use to OUTSOURCE 223 brass as it was considered less than match as a round.
with enough input from users lapua now produces MATCH 223 BRASS.
that is either knock off or old and odds and ends
may i suggest you try buying some lapua brass from a lapua dealer and then come back

No need to yell and be a horse's hindquarters about it, 6bras.

I've never bought anything Lapua before this, so I wouldn't know how they do or don't package it at the factory. Hence my questions--which specifically suggested the possibility that I got something other than new Lapua cases. That's the opposite of badmouthing Lapua; it's giving Lapua the benefit of the doubt.

And, yes, of course I would much prefer to order brass from an established dealer. But for the first two months of collecting tools and supplies to get started, I could not find any high quality .223 brass from any dealers, so I used GunBroker for those. If you have any new and helpful shopping suggestions please do share them, though.

Finally, if your goal is to keep people from interacting and learning, your post is perfect--keep it up. Thankfully, I don't give a rat's a** about someone showing their own heiny, so I'll stick around.

Have a nice day!

 

[BringBackThe80s]

Though I don't do much loading for .223/5.56 ; I have over 800 rounds of Lapua .308 SRP for my TR rifle , and just bought another 400 for Match use only . The latest batch was all the same lot # , and came in the Blue box , packaged loosely . No plastic bag . Upon checking this brass to get it ready for the FCNC , I checked Base to Shoulder length , using a Whidden guage on my B/S calipers , and over 100 cases from all four boxes were within .001 ,and fit my chamber like a glove . I stopped checking , and started prepping .The over-whelming majority of F-class competitors , shoot Lapua for very simple reasons . Quality , consistency , and Durability . Sorry to hear about your issues , but that's not Lapua standards .

Yes, that is what I have understood Lapua standards to be and why I was so surprised as to suspect I didn't get new from factory product. Thank you!

 

[Delfuego]

No need to yell and be a horse's hindquarters about it, 6bras.

Agreed. He is new here and seems to know everything about everything...

I hate to say it, but I think you got swindled. If it were me, I would toss them out, they might be fired a million times and probably are not worth chasing. New Lapua brass is generally very good quality (nothing is perfect). Good luck!

 

[1bamashooter]

No need to yell and be a horse's hindquarters about it, 6bras.

I've never bought anything Lapua before this, so I wouldn't know how they do or don't package it at the factory. Hence my questions--which specifically suggested the possibility that I got something other than new Lapua cases. That's the opposite of badmouthing Lapua; it's giving Lapua the benefit of the doubt.

And, yes, of course I would much prefer to order brass from an established dealer. But for the first two months of collecting tools and supplies to get started, I could not find any high quality .223 brass from any dealers, so I used GunBroker for those. If you have any new and helpful shopping suggestions please do share them, though.

Finally, if your goal is to keep people from interacting and learning, your post is perfect--keep it up. Thankfully, I don't give a rat's a** about someone showing their own heiny, so I'll stick around.

Have a nice day!

Took 2 seconds to find it
Whidden has it in stock you got seconds or fakes

 

[BringBackThe80s]

Took 2 seconds to find it
Whidden has it in stock you got seconds or fakes

Thanks. If I was looking to buy right now, i would grab some. Shoot, maybe I will anyway. As I mentioned, though, nobody had it 4 months ago when I was searching for it at the peak of hunting season.

EDIT: And Whidden's price now is 30% lower in price than what it was being scalped for in October/November. Oh, well, live and learn.

 

[snoopy001]

Numerous folks have found that Lapua has went down hill the past few years.

Fully agree with your statement,fortunately Peterson is growing up by adding continuosly new calibers who will replace easy such downhill quality product .
regards Snoopy