6.5 Grendel HUGE bullet runout. NEED HELP.

[Oso]

No I chamfer before I expand case necks, that way the expander can smooth out the edge of the chamfer as it enters. At least that's my line of thought

My 6yo woke me up crawling into my bed asking for something to drink. I decided to look at my computer to give him a head start falling asleep before the Big Snoring Bear laid down again... It probably doesn't matter whether you chamfer before or after expanding case neck for the lathe so long as you do chamfer at some point to help initially ease the bullet into the case. For my bulk ammo I just run brass through FL Sizing Die with Expander Ball. However, for my precision reloads I have removed the expander ball and use a neck expander die/mandrel to facilitate additional case prep steps and also exact neck tension for specific rifle. I may start using neck expander die on my progressive press for my bulk ammo.... who knows... 2022 might get crazy at my house.

The order of my case prep for precision reloading includes:
(1) anneal cases after every shot;
(2) expand case necks with mandrel (size designated by lathe) for neck turning (if needed);
(3) trim to desired case length (3-way trimmer also chamfers both inside and outside case mouth). ;
(4) expand case necks to final ID for desired neck tension (use dry lube)...

The mandrels for both the neck turning lathe and the neck expander are both tapered and don't need the case mouth chamfered.... unless there is a bur from cutting/forming wildcat cases.

 

[EvilRoy]

My 6yo woke me up crawling into my bed asking for something to drink. I decided to look at my computer to give him a head start falling asleep before the Big Snoring Bear laid down again... It probably doesn't matter whether you chamfer before or after expanding case neck for the lathe so long as you do chamfer at some point to help initially ease the bullet into the case. For my bulk ammo I just run brass through FL Sizing Die with Expander Ball. However, for my precision reloads I have removed the expander ball and use a neck expander die/mandrel to facilitate additional case prep steps and also exact neck tension for specific rifle. I may start using neck expander die on my progressive press for my bulk ammo.... who knows... 2022 might get crazy at my house.

The order of my case prep for precision reloading includes:
(1) anneal cases after every shot;
(2) expand case necks with mandrel (size designated by lathe) for neck turning (if needed);
(3) trim to desired case length (3-way trimmer also chamfers both inside and outside case mouth). ;
(4) expand case necks to final ID for desired neck tension (use dry lube)...

The mandrels for both the neck turning lathe and the neck expander are both tapered and don't need the case mouth chamfered.... unless there is a bur from cutting/forming wildcat cases.

Looks like you are doing about the same thing that I was planning to do. Looks like you use a case prep machine for chamfering and deburring. Kinda jealous of that I decided to do that all by hand (just because that's how I thought to save money). I might look into getting the stuff to add to my Wilson trimmer. Still by hand but not like the little hand deburring /chamfering tool I use now. It makes sense that probably should be a repeatable process. It also looks like your initial expanding mandrel is not necessarily the same size as your final. With my expander for turning the neck is used, it actually sizes my case right at 1.5 thousandths below my bullet diameter. That's at least what my brass told me. I also dry lube the case before seating the bullet. I am waiting for my 21st century hydro seater press to come in so I can check out the seating pressure force. It makes sense to me that could be a valuable indicator of whether something isn't exactly the same. I guess I am wasting money in different ways than others. By the way I have a 6yr old too. She was our last. My job was good enough at the time that my wife and I decided that we should have our 3rd before we couldn't. We had always wanted 3 but never thought we could afford it. So, we stuck at 2 for the longest time. I am 53 now so I am an old guy. All I can say is my 6yr old daughter is the one that my folks warned us about. My fist 2 kids were easy to raise more or less. My 3rd she's a busy bee and a sassy pants. Fortunately she stays away from my reloading bench. Thanks for the info on how you process your brass.

 

[geo.ulrich]

One thing comes to mind. Check the concentricity of the bushing you are using. I have seen more than one bored off center. Just a thought. Good luck.

Paul

Another thing alot of times the faces aren't square to bore

 

[jelenko]

Since the OP has confirmed that the cases have very little runout before seating and the inside of the mouth is chamfered, isn't it just a matter of whether the bullets are out of round or the seating die is causing the runout?

 

[6BRA]

What concentricity guage? Are you annealing? Ar brass deflector will ruin case driven concentricity gauges, imo. Beats them up.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Since the OP has confirmed that the cases have very little runout before seating and the inside of the mouth is chamfered, isn't it just a matter of whether the bullets are out of round or the seating die is causing the runout?

He also mentioned that he has tried two different seating dies.

 

[EvilRoy]

What concentricity guage? Are you annealing? Ar brass deflector will ruin case driven concentricity gauges, imo. Beats them up.

21st century, yes, and going thru process of tuning the extractor to avoid the deflector.

 

[EvilRoy]

He also mentioned that he has tried two different seating dies.

I am also getting the same exact sizer and seating dies as I a using for my 308 rifle. 308 sizer is a Forster national match. So now I will have a non bushing sizer and a different seater as well. That will give 3 seating and 2 sizing dies for 6.5 Grendel.

 

[EvilRoy]

Another thing alot of times the faces aren't square to bore

Bushing was right on the money but too tight for Lapua brass. It's OK for the hornady brass since the Hornady is a bit thinner in the neck thickness and the brass is softer. But I do have a new set of bushings coming in to try to not use the mandrel as so have said to try. Apparently mandrels are a topic that involves 2 Different camps of people for and against their use. So I will try it both ways.

 

[Forum Boss]

One trick that can help with concentricity.

Seat bullet part way in case, then retract die, rotate case 1/2 turn and finish seating.

See: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/06/for-less-run-out-try-rotating-your-cases-during-seating/

Also, check to make sure the tip of the bullet is not hitting the inside of the seating stem causing it to go off center.

 

[ppaul]

At this point the best I can suggest is you post your county of residence and maybe someone close to you can actually stop by and help. None of this makes any sense at this point.

 

[jcm800]

One trick that can help with concentricity.

Seat bullet part way in case, then retract die, rotate case 1/2 turn and finish seating.

See: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2020/06/for-less-run-out-try-rotating-your-cases-during-seating/

Also, check to make sure the tip of the bullet is not hitting the inside of the seating stem causing it to go off center.

Yep...Amax or similar pointy bullets are notorious for this when used with a standard seating stem. Thats why they sell a specific stem for them. I run a small center drill in the nose of stem for extra clereance. Use a marker on the front of bullet and seat, you should see a slight ring on ogive.

Use the index trick all the time.