Bullet diameter is independent of the case. Case neck thickness is 0.0135. As far as diameter 0.2625 is inside dimension prior to seating.
6.5 Grendel HUGE bullet runout. NEED HELP.
- Thread starter EvilRoy
- Start date
So do you use expand mandrel after sizing?
Yes. I also have been having this issue with the expander on the decapping stem. So I'm thinking it's not the mandrel die. I am really confused about why the bullet seems to be the issue. Especially after trying 2 separate seating dies.
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
So, the brass is great just before seating!
=> I would look to the seating die and bullet. Can you check the runout of the bullets in your comparator?
I am trying to figure out to do that with the 21st century. I might be able to fudge it if I can get a good place to rotate the bullet and get the dial indicator on it I will certainly give it a shot.
I thought you didn't have an expander on the decapping stem. You must mean the decapping pin holder, that little tube nut that holds the pin. Take a case expand it and check your runout after expanding and before seating a bullet.
I meant that I had the same problem with the expander on the decapping stem before I went with the mandrel.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
At which step does the runout occur? If youre using a fl bushing die with no expander why are you running the case into an expandee afterwards? Use the correct size bushing and skip that step. The going back n forth aint helping. First thing is to figure out which step its happening
I did that to eliminate the expander from the equation. There are many gripes about the ball style expander that normally comes with the dies as part of the decapping stem. However Redding die comes with the expander on their bushing dies. It truthfully was to eliminate that as a source of deforming the case neck or shoulder. Truthfully I don't understand using a bushing or mandrel separately. It would make far more sense to have the mandrel and the expander operating at the same time, so you could guarantee concentricity inside and outside the case as well as setting a uniform case wall thickness though the mild amount of swedging that would occur on the case neck.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You dont need an expander. Use the bushing to size it to the correct size the first time. Plowing an expander in or out is going to induce runout and id bet if you check runout after each reloading step youll find this is where its happening.
You have answered your question with this post! You don't know what you're doing and you haven't taken one piece of advice here! Good luck with your shooting endeavors!
I don't think the Hornady bullets are the problem. I've gotten excellent measurements on them, as well as excellent groups. If you want available top-notch target bullets, get in touch with Ed Faber at JLK Bullets. Every measurement I can think of to do on these bullets is spot-on, and you can actually buy some! My base-to-ogive measurements have been almost exact since I started using them. Sierra bullets are excellent, too. I wouldn't hesitate to use them in a match. They've probably won as many matches as any other bullet. I am sorry to say I have no ideas about your runout issue. I would screw the Forster bullet seating die down with the press ram all the way up, and screw the seating die in until it comes to a hard stop, not using the spring-loaded portion at the bottom. And if you can find a cheap standard seating die, try using it. But be aware (as you probably are) that many of these dies have a crimping ring if they are screwed in solid to the top of the ram. They have to be set up in the press with a washer as a spacer, to maintain die alignment, but allow a space above the press ram, so the bullets don't get crimped. I personally use a Lee Dead-Length Bullet seating die (no crimping ring) to seat the final 0.010". You could possibly ask Lee to make one in your caliber, if they are not available. I'm very interested in what is causing this, and I'm glad it's you and not me. But when you figure it out, please clue the rest of us in about what causes it, and what to do to fix it. BTW, if you seat a bullet, and you can't twist it loose using your fingers, your neck sizing is GTG. Yeah, maybe a gas gun could loosen a bullet, but that's a special case, and I only shoot bolt guns. If you want a neck sizing operation that squeezes the case neck, with a mandrel in the neck, get the Lee Collet/Mandrel neck sizing die. Again, you might have to special-order that, depending on your caliber, but there's no lube involved, and it sizes turned necks exactly the same as unturned necks, without changing any parts. In fact, that's how I size everything.
Fast14riot
Gold $$ Contributor
You're doing too much. Ditch the mandrel, get the proper size bushing, be sure the seating stem fits your bullets (lap the stem to a bullet if needed) and then measure runout. I'm willing to bet it gets significantly better.
I haven't messed with anything other than checking my case dimensions before and after loading. I have new bushings on the way to eliminate mandrel from the equation. Also I made a mistake on the message that you last responded to. It should have read something like running a bushing outside and a mandrel inside the case at the same time to basically force the neck into concentricity. However that's just a side thought from having operated extrusion equipment. It will at least be a week before bushings arrive in order to try the no mandrel approach that was recommended. However if you believe that you know my situation and what I have to work with and the odd issue that I have never experienced before. Please assist or don't you can be helpful or just another voice in the room. To me it really doesn't matter. I have been awake today far longer than I should have been already. I am very tired and I type very clumsily on a phone where my fingers take up the letter I want to type and all the adjacent ones around it. I make lots of mistakes editing and remembering whose post I am responding to. Rarely do I ask questions about anything on the internet since you get so many answers right or wrong. Typically, I just look for and read as much as I can about what I am needing information on or am just curious about. I prefer to find out who the real players are and try to follow the information they happen to share. Problem with this kind of communication is that I can't show what I am talking about easily and I generally don't have time to try. Kids and wife keep me busy enough as it is. Also reloading techniques have changed greatly since I have last concerned myself with it. Back then you still neck sized or you were F-ing up. Lots of new equipment and reloading ideas have come up since then. I am game to try anything so long as it makes a bit of sense. Obviously whatever it is going on seems to be happening at the seating operation because my case runout isn't bad enough to create the crazy numbers I have been seeing. However, I am buying more bushings to eliminate any form of expander just to see if expanding is creating a condition that prevents seating the bullets straight. I am even buying a resizing die the same type as I use for my 308 to rule out bushing induced runout. No I am not trying anything or listening to anyone's recommendations on things to try. At least that's how you see it. Their are only so many things to try that I haven't tried or thought about already. I get plenty good 308 ammo doing basically the same thing as I am trying to do with the Grendel. The main difference is that the 308 is not a bushing resize die. Otherwise no real difference in prep. Hell even the bullets for the 308 are ELD-M as well. But they actually go in straight. As it stands right now I am trying to eliminate or rule out certain pieces of my dies and equipment are causing the bullet to tip to the side. But once again I am not following others advice on it. Seems more to me that you want me to follow your advice or else you will throw a tantrum. First, I dont know who you are or your credentials. Nor, do I really care. All I know is that you tried to tell me my bullet is larger than my inside case dimensions because you couldn't understand the math, and then you try to hit me on something I myself mistyped. None of that makes any sense or shows any bit of personal grace. I wouldn't be on here asking for help on something if I knew what was going on. I am here because what I am seeing in this instance makes no sense. I'm here for information that I haven't thought about at all or haven't thought about in a different or right way. I have spent a lot of time trying to get myself caught up on modern reloading and spent a ton of money (for me) getting modern equipment and good supplies to do it with. But reloading hasn't really changed so much that the principal elements are unknown to me and yes I admit, I have never blown myself up. I am here to learn when I am unable to figure the weird things such as this out. No one here has ever made perfect ammo every time or always shoots as expected. So come down off your high horse and calm down a bit. My ammo problem is not yours. My ammo problem is mine, and why I am here asking. If you don't like that the fact you aren't the only voice in the room, I don't really care. Also I don't go at anyone's pace but mine.
No I chamfer before I expand case necks, that way the expander can smooth out the edge of the chamfer as it enters. At least that's my line of thought
I have more bushings on the way. I didn't take into account that that bushing was only good for Hornady brass I have been loading. It works the Lapua brass a bit much to use without an expander. If it works this way I will grind the expander on the depriming stem down so it doesn't expand the case on the way out of the case.
I am loading ammo to hand feed my AR. That way I can try to bump into the lands and then back away like a bolt gun. Also my chamber is a bit tighter since it's a target barrel. Spent more than I wanted to truthfully. It will shoot factory stuff at 1/2 moa well enough. I am just looking for a little bit more. Using it to get my technique refined before I try to load for a real rifle. Target shooting is something that I grew up on and got away from it once I had kids to pay for. Finally trying to get myself back into it. What really is a stinker is that my eyes aren't even near what they were. Age and astigmatism have taken their toll on them. But I still want to try F open or FTR (assuming that that is for 223 and 308). Thinking more about 308 due to the fact that 308 is easier on barrels. Sooner or later I will be looking for a really good gunsmith for putting a rifle together. 1000 yards seems like a good way to keep my mind occupied now that I am getting older.
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