Again just shows how much different everyone's experience is. My buddy gets 99 grains of H20 in his Hornady brass with sized 30 SM brass vs Hornady 300 PRC at 94.7 H20. Seems more realistic actually considering it's improving an otherwise non-improved case. Even the 284 Shehane gains 3 grains over the standard 284 Win which is probably the smallest increase in an improved design. Regardless, I'm sticking with the original PRC after some thinking on the subject. I need a break from the fire forming game. I don't feel the difference is worth the effort to me. I do feel the PRC case design IS superior to both the 30 Nosler and 300 Weatherby for DBM platforms. Makes the best use of the cartridges length.
Berger 245 EOL Best Cartridge
- Thread starter treillw
- Start date
Yeah your buddy needs to check his methods
Even Richard Sherman stated its a 1 grain capacity increase on his 30 sm thread.
I'm not against fire forming but if a nearly identical case does the same or better without the hassle then it's a no brainer for me.
The 300PRC is definitely a solid cartridge (especially with Lapua brass) I just prefer the 35 degree shoulder of the Nos
Ya that was kinda why I wanted to go SM. Anytime you improve a case, it seems to be easier to manage the brass wear. Just not interested in fireforming and don't want to spend the hefty price of ADG sherman brass when Lapua is much cheaper. Thought I saw a write up where Rich mentioned the difference was much greater than one grain. I could be wrong tho. Just thought I read it somewhere. Kinda why it was appealing or I'm not sure I'd have considered it.
What shot better the 220s or the 245s
They both shoot extremely well, the edge probably goes to the 245s in my rifle though
Maybe because it's an 8 twist
One thing to thing to think about is the 245's are very long like rhovee mentioned. Theres not alot of room in a 3.850 magazine for them, internal length of 3.77. Alot of times due to recoil the round will slide forward and hit the front of the magazine and flatten the tip a hair. This results in a substantial decrease in bc. My 338 norma improved with 300 gr bergers would hit 3/4 moa low at 1000 with the flattened tip rounds. Haven't shot the 245 at 1000 with flattened tips yet but I can guarantee it would be the same. The first two rounds in a magazine don't get the tips flattened. First one is jacked into the chamber and the second one is high enough up it doesn't hit the front of the magazine. The next rounds will though. Ideally the 245's should be shot in a bdl setup with a 3.830 internal length. I do have some fixes that Im working on for magazines that should eliminate the problem with 245s. Should know in a week or so if it solves it. Im 99% sure it will. Im personally shooting the 230 otms in my 300 norma improved and 300 prc. Its substantially shorter than the 230 target hybrid and 245. I believe thats why it has been easier to tune. Itll shoot 3" at 1000 in my proof barrel 300 NMI with n568 and single digit es. In my 300 prc its shot sub inch at 580 yds with h1000. Worked great on the aoudad I shot at 320 yds this summer also. Quartering away hard I sent it right in front of the rear ham and it stopped in the opposing front shoulder right beneath the skin. Dropped in its tracks. I was just breaking the 300 prc barrel in with that extremely mild and accurate load that had a muzzle velocity of only 2700 fps in my 24" barrel. 4-5 gr below pressure but its shot bugholes in the last handful of rifles Ive test fired with that load. I think that particular load if shot throughout the life of a barrel would get 2,000 rounds of barrel life pretty easily.
That's good Intel
Why does the shorter bullet length of the OTM help with tunability, do you suppose there'd be a downside shooting in an 8 twist barrel thats throated more towards the 245?
Im not 100% sure as to the science behind why. I would assume its the same reason the hybrids are easier to tune and more forgiving than the vld's. Ive had other customers say the 230 otm was easier to tune as well. Not too picky on seating depth. Its significantly shorter than the target hybrid, around .070 shorter based on a few I measured. Ive shot a few groups in the .0s with them in the 300 prc and 300 norma improved. The first load i ever tried in my 300 prc with that bullet shot in the .1s. Literally shots 2-4 down the rifle.
An 8 tw is significantly faster than youll need for that bullet. I cant say if it will shoot lights out or not. Also depending on your throat it might be quite a ways up the neck if anywhere close to the lands.
An 8 tw is significantly faster than youll need for that bullet. I cant say if it will shoot lights out or not. Also depending on your throat it might be quite a ways up the neck if anywhere close to the lands.
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I think your correct. Nix my previous statement. Even the standard 300NM has an improvement performance wise over the 30 SM. Not sure it's real big but it's an improvement all the same.
Thats the thing that people fail to realize. Yes the prc is an efficient case. But your not getting 300 norma and improved speeds without really high psi loads. In the norma improved version I can run a mild load with a 230 berger at 2950 fps retumbo, h1000 etc and only get .003 throat erosion every 100 rounds. The brass will literally never wear out at those loads. I had 29 firings on a single piece of brass with retumbo and 230 bergers at 3080 fps. It was a pretty warm load. Bolt click etc. After 29 firings the primer pocket felt almost brand new. Another benefit to the norma improved is youll never have to trim the brass. After 5 firings the brass had grown .004. From firings 5-20 it only grew another .002 or so. That particular 20 firings on brass was with a 230 at 2990 fps with N568. That powder definitely isn't the speed demon that it was originally touted as. However it offers awesome case fill and extremely low ES. ES of 8 fps for 9 shots the last time I chronoed it.
Lets face it, performance wise, the 300NM improved is a cartridge to be wreckoned with. The PRC is an awesome cartridge in its own but can't be compared to the NM. Every cartridge has it's limitations. The 30/338 LM is a beast as well but the accuracy of the NM based on what I've seen in your 300NM thread is incredible. Not sure it can get much better.
Using the 245gr BEH with a 26 inch 1-9.5 twist Benchmark barrel I was getting 2890fps with 86.0grs of R33, 215m Primers and ADG brass, very consistent accurate load in my 300 PRC.
I would go 300 PRC.
I would go 300 PRC.
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Not finished with my 300 PRC yet but look forward to it. Still working on issues with a current build. Hopefully by next winter I'll be in the process.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
If you build a 300 NMI on a Bat HR integral rail with a 4" box and a 9 twist Bartlien carbon ( if you must have carbon) you will have the best of the best and wont regret a thing.
I have a bunch of Borden bigfoot actions with nitride, a pile of manners eh1 stocks for em, carbon barrels, bottom metal, triggers, scopes and everything else youll need for a build. I even offer package deals to guys. Take em to your local gunsmith and have him put it all together for ya.
Also have a pile of Defiance and Pierce Engineering actions thatll be here soon. Already have the stocks for em.
No need to wait 6-12 months for parts.
Also have a pile of Defiance and Pierce Engineering actions thatll be here soon. Already have the stocks for em.
No need to wait 6-12 months for parts.
Any left hand models coming?
Ya. Ill have some lefties in a few months. Ill have some manners eh1 stocks for them also.
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