Giraud vs. Henderson Case Trimmer

[F Class John]

I get asked a lot about these two units so I decided to make a video showing all the differences good and bad for each. Enjoy...

 

[Lifesfordeath]

Thanks John, loving the content and we all appreciate the time, thought, and details in your videos

 

[BoydAllen]

If you think about what happens to the case at the beginning of when the round is fired, the critical dimension is from the shoulder to the mouth as far as the effect on the bullet's relation to the rifling. We have gotten so used to measuring case length for trim consistency that we tend to overlook that. Also there is no fast way to measure shoulder to mouth.

 

[PracticalTactical]

I don't understand why you guys like these fancy expensive trimming tools

I've been using a regular drill press and little crow length trimming tools for years with no complaints.

I use a 1/4" shank cone shaped carbide burr to deburr the inside case necks. They work way better than any of the cheap ones made by the usual suspects. I also like the angle better.

Still looking for a truly great outside neck deburr tool. Nobody seems to make anything for the outside that works really well. I have a design in mind and maybe one day I'll make one out of O1 tool steel.

 

[kindabitey]

I don't understand why you guys like these fancy expensive trimming tools

1- Because I can
2- Speed. I can trim/ deburr 100 rounds in about 6 minutes or less with a Giruad
3- So you’ll have something to complain about

 

[drop_point]

1- Because I can
2- Speed. I can trim/ deburr 100 rounds in about 6 minutes or less with a Giruad
3- So you’ll have something to complain about

The same guy is on sniper's hide telling people if you don't use a vibratory scale capable of 0.002 gr accuracy, you suck and can't load a low ES. I believe he's just a troll.

 

[drop_point]

I get asked a lot about these two units so I decided to make a video showing all the differences good and bad for each. Enjoy...

This thread made your prediction come true, John.

I watched this as soon as it dropped. I've been looking to upgrade from my RCBS powered trimmer and Little Crow trimmers and its been down between these two.

 

[Hunting 2019]

Thank you John,I appreciate the time and investment you make doing these videos.
Long time Wilson user,even added a drill to speed things up,still time consuming.
Bought the Henderson power trimmer about three months ago added Inline fab mounts.
Main reason for choosing Henderson over Giraud was I have arthritis in my fingers, so far
it's working great. Still have to use the Wilson on my 17 cal.wish they made a cutter for that!

 

[JimSC]

Thanks for the video, some good info there.

edit - On the shoulder vs case head indexing. It simply does not matter, either way will get the same result. After trimming using either method the case will still be the same COL regardless and the case mouth to shoulder datum will not change with either.

If you don't believe that take two strips of paper 6 inches long. Draw a line 2 inches from the right end. Trim1 paper to 5 inches measuring from the left to the right ends. Take 1 inch off the other piece by measuring 1 inch from the line. Both pieces will be 5 inches long and the line will still be 1 inch from the right end of each

 

[BoydAllen]

Putting strips of paper aside, there is variation in shoulder bump, more on un-annealed brass. Those variations mean that if you index off of the case shoulder to trim the end of the neck, that the differences in shoulder to head will cause corresponding differences in case OAL. Whether any of this will show up on a target has yet to be determined.

 

[JimSC]

Putting strips of paper aside, there is variation in shoulder bump, more on un-annealed brass. Those variations mean that if you index off of the case shoulder to trim the end of the neck, that the differences in shoulder to head will cause corresponding differences in case OAL. Whether any of this will show up on a target has yet to be determined.

Boyd if you take a case 1.757 measured case head to case mouth and trim it on a Wilson or on a Giraud to 1.750 measured case head to case mouth they will both have the same .007 taken off the case mouth. I am not trying to put down either method. The Giraud and the Hendersons are both nice machines and certainly faster, but the case head or shoulder datum precision argument is false

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Size and bump perfectly and it’s not gonna matter what method you use. Inconsistent bumps will show up on target. If you’re not able to get all the sizing perfect you don’t just head over to the next step of trimming. If inconsistencies are found the assembly line screeches to a halt.

 

[BoydAllen]

Boyd if you take a case 1.757 measured case head to case mouth and trim it on a Wilson or on a Giraud to 1.750 measured case head to case mouth they will both have the same .007 taken off the case mouth. I am not trying to put down either method. The Giraud and the Hendersons are both nice machines and certainly faster, but the case head or shoulder datum precision argument is false

Not if the shoulder to head dimensions are different for each case. (In the same lot of cases, sized with the same die and setting, shoulder to head dimension will vary, particularly if the cases are not owner annealed.) If you have two cases with identical trimmed OALs, and their shoulder to head measurements vary after sizing, and then you make their shoulder to case mouth dimensions by using a trimmer that locates the cut from the shoulder, the OALs will vary by the difference in shoulder to head dimension...but this can be deceiving because when they are fired they are knocked forward in the chamber, resulting in the case extension past the CHAMBER shoulder being uniform, which is the more important uniformity.

 

[JimSC]

If you take a case that is 1.157 in length and trim it so that it measures 1.500" from the case head to the case mouth using either a Giraud or a Wilson that case is still 1.50 inches. The .007" of brass that was removed was removed from the case mouth regardless of which trimmer was used. The distance from the shoulder datum to the case mouth will be the same on each assuming both were sized correctly and had the same amount of springback.

Like I said earlier I am not putting the tools down, they are good tools. I have too much invested in my five Wilsons to ever change over but that is just me.

 

[dthomas]

I like my Henderson trimmer. Haven't watched the video yet but I've been waiting for the comparison. Thanks John for making your YouTube videos

 

[J.d. Popkes]

Not if the shoulder to head dimensions are different for each case. (In the same lot of cases, sized with the same die and setting, shoulder to head dimension will vary, particularly if the cases are not owner annealed.) If you have two cases with identical trimmed OALs, and their shoulder to head measurements vary after sizing, and then you make their shoulder to case mouth dimensions by using a trimmer that locates the cut from the shoulder, the OALs will vary by the difference in shoulder to head dimension...but this can be deceiving because when they are fired they are knocked forward in the chamber, resulting in the case extension past the CHAMBER shoulder being uniform, which is the more important uniformity.

What’s the problem with annealing, getting a perfect bump when sizing, then trimming perfectly? I mean if I do a crappy job in any of the early steps it’s not gonna improve in later steps. All steps matter?

 

[Straightshooter1]

The distance from the shoulder datum to the case mouth will be the same on each assuming both were sized correctly and had the same amount of springback.

Agree. That assumption is the issue . . . at least it was for me and why I chose to leave my Wilson and go to a Giraud. I figured it was more important for me to get as consistent distance from shoulder datum to case mouth than the cases OAL. And to do that, I needed to index off the shoulder. As I've refined my annealing and sizing operation, I find I get such a small variance in case base to shoulder datum, that indexing off the case's base isn't going to make any difference on my cartridges performance. But I very much like the time savings of powered 3-way trimming over my tedious Wilson trimmer.

 

[rijndael]

If someone is worried about inconsistent shoulder bump impacting their trim, couldn't they just trim before sizing?

 

[J.d. Popkes]

If someone is worried about inconsistent shoulder bump impacting their trim, couldn't they just trim before sizing?

They probably should figure out the bump issues. That’s like saying ya can’t measure powder to within a half grain but worried about seating depth. To me at least….

 

[rijndael]

They probably should figure out the bump issues. That’s like saying ya can’t measure powder to within a half grain but worried about seating depth. To me at least….

True, but I was thinking about people fretting over minor/normal variations in bump, not someone at .002"+ of variation.