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Hornady OAL gauge questions

DShortt

Gold $$ Contributor
Sorry if this has already been beaten to death. Searched past threads and found something close but not the same as this question, at least in my mind's eye.

So. Using a Hornady OAL gauge to determine bullet seating depth. Unless I misunderstand this tool, it initially measures the distance from the case datum (headspace reference) to the bullet olgive. Fine, I get that.
However, once the gauge and projectile are removed from the chamber then the measurement method provided is from the case base to the bullet ogive.

?

Without doing a bunch of mathematics I don't see how this measuring method is helpful apart from a ballpark estimate. Am I missing something?
 
Well it's designed to read a measurement from the case head to the ogive of the bullet. The measurement from the datum line on the shoulder to ogive of the bullet is a constant for each bullet and won't change except for variations in ogive location of that particular bullet.

The even bigger variation would be the difference between using an unfired modified case vs. a case fired in the rifle being measured drilled, tapped and sized for that chamber. The later being the longest because the case has expanded to fit the chamber.

Keep in mind these numbers are not exact only relative to one rifle chamber and one bullet.

Sam Milliard gives a great explanation in this video of how this all plays out here.

 
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Right. I think we are looking at this the same way. Unless a case fired in the particular chamber is converted into a gauge for that specific chamber, then the measurement is only an approximation at best.
I understand that the distance from the datum line to the bullet ogive will remain constant. Problem is, the Hornady gauge doesn't reference the datum line. It references the case head. So unless a fire formed, unsized case is drilled, tapped and used as a case gauge for that specific chamber then an accurate reading is next to impossible because the Hornady tool measures case head to bullet ogive. Trying to use this measurement to determine the bolt face to ogive distance is going to be an educated guess at best. But unless I completely misunderstand that is what Hornady claims the tool can accomplish.

Or so I understand it.
 
The two numbers that you are questioning shouldn’t be anymore than a couple of thousandths apart. You can determine that number by measuring to the shoulder on the case used with the Hornady tool and comparing it to the same measurement on a fired, unsized case.
 
When using the Hornady OAL gauge to determine the distance to touching, you are actually basing the measurement when the shoulder of the OAL gauge case is in solid contact with the chamber shoulder. A much easier way of stating that is simply that the OAL gauge case is held solidly in the chamber against the shoulder as the bullet is pushed out with the plastic rod to reach just "touching the lands. The actual measurement is then taken using calipers once the tool is removed from the chamber. That means you're measuring from the base of the case (i.e. NOT the bolt face) to a point on the bullet that is presumably close to where it first touches the lands.

All this is really does is to establish a reproducible measurement that can be used as a reference point for subsequent CBTO measurements during the reloading process...setting a kind of baseline measurement, if you will. It's a reference, nothing more. However, it's important to note that it's unlikely to be off by a substantial margin from the true value. Unless someone's technique was really very poor, it highly likely that this reference value might be within about .005" of the actual value. The same may not be true of a "ballpark" estimate, which could be off by .010", .020", or who even knows how much. So it's a "reference value" that is supported by actual measurements, whereas a without the OAL gauge and the measurements, it would really be nothing more than a guess. In theory, you could use a guess solely as a "reference value", but I think most would prefer to use the OAL gauge [measured] reference value that is likely very close to the true value rather than a guess. There are, of course, there are several other reasons why the reference value should be as close as possible to the true value (i.e. more accurate than a guess). Nonetheless, it's worth noting that there are certainly potential caveats to the OAL gauge reference value...to name a few:

1) the distance from the base of the OAL gauge case to the bullet ogive is NOT the same as measuring
from the bolt face
2) the OAL gauge case may differ in external dimensions slightly from a piece of brass fired in the rifle
3) the point on the bullet ogive where the caliper insert seats may actually NOT be the same point on the
ogive that first contacts the lands
4) some find identifying the very slightest touch of the bullet to the lands to be tricky

In using the OAL gauge, we assume these potential sources of error are relatively minor, and set the values generated with the OAL gauge as a reference. The good news is that once you have generated the distance to touching value with the tool (i.e. CBTO reference value), from that point on, you are directly measuring loaded rounds. Those directly-measured rounds are then fired, and optimized seating depth values determined from the target. It is then possible to reproduce the CBTO values determined from the directly-measured rounds with very good accuracy and precision. In other words, the OAL gauge reference value has effectively been rendered moot at this point because you are now measuring actual loaded rounds, and determining precision on a target using the actual measured rounds. You can then reproduce that exact CBTO value at will.

In using the CBTO determined at "touching" with the Hornady OAL gauge as an effective zero point (i.e. bullets seated longer are jammed and bullets seated shorter are jumped), it doesn't really matter if the true measurement to "touching" is different by a few thousandths. It's just a reference. Hypothetically, let's say someone pushed the bullet in a tick too hard, so that it really ended up .003" into the lands when they thought it was just "touching". Thus, an "optimal" seating depth of .012" off the lands as determined by the OAL gauge reference would in reality be only about .009" off the lands. But it doesn't matter. The resultant CBTO values from rounds prepared for a seating depth test would be measured directly from the actual loaded rounds, which then would fired, so that the optimum seating depth would be absolutely clear from the target, and easily reproduced at the reloading bench. In all likelihood, the reloader would go on thinking their bullet ogive was .012" from the lands, when in reality it was only .009" from the lands, and never know the difference.
 
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I took one of my empty brass that had been fired 3 times without resizing and use that.
The measuring part takes a VERY light touch or you will be all over the place.
I take about 10 bullets out of a new box, then take five readings with each bullet.
Throw out the highest number and the lowest number.
Use the average of the rest.
Don't look back or you will disappear down the rabbit hole and never be seen again.
 
So. Using a Hornady OAL gauge to determine bullet seating depth.
Term Nazi here, your not determining OAL, nor seating depth with that tool.
It's used to find touching land relationship.
Ned explained really well that it's just a reference, and not as important in itself to what full seating testing tells you is best.

Personally, I never liked to Hornady approach to finding land touch point. Of various methods, it seems worst to me. I use a cleaning rod method, which I learned in the 70s.
But in the last ~15yrs I have not put in high precision efforts to determine 'in the land' (ITL) relationships, because I no longer care about it. I don't load bullets ITL. Instead I get a quick measure of touching, back off 5thou, and that's where I'll begin seating testing (going further away from lands in 10thou increments).
The gold in all this is best CBTO, so I could really care less about exactly where bullets would contact lands.
 
The easy way of getting the shoulder datum line to bullet ogive touch line is to simply use whatever case you have, the Hornady case or your fired case that has been drilled, find the bullet seated depth as normal.

Once you have the dummy round, use the headspace insert body and zero the caliper on the shoulder, then change the insert to the ogive insert using the same body and measure the base to bullet ogive distance. Since you have zeroed on the datum line, the new measurement will be from datum line to bullet touch.

The only thing you need to do is, make sure both inserts are the same thickness providing the same zero.

This measurement is good for throat erosion.

Cartridge base to ogive with your fired and sized to, as will be used case is probably a more useful reference.
 
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The easy way of getting the shoulder datum line to bullet ogive touch line is to simply use whatever case you have, the Hornady case or your fired case that has been drilled, find the bullet seated depth as normal.

Once you have the dummy round, use the headspace insert body and zero the caliper on the shoulder, then change the insert to the ogive insert using the same body and measure the base to bullet ogive distance. Since you have zeroed on the datum line, the new measurement will be from datum line to bullet touch.

The only thing you need to do is, make sure both inserts are the same thickness providing the same zero.

This measurement is good for throat erosion.

Cartridge base to ogive with your fired and sized to, as will be used case is probably a more useful reference.
I knew there had to be a way to do this, just couldn't wrap my head around it last night. Thanks!
 
Term Nazi here, your not determining OAL, nor seating depth with that tool.
It's used to find touching land relationship.
Ned explained really well that it's just a reference, and not as important in itself to what full seating testing tells you is best.

Personally, I never liked to Hornady approach to finding land touch point. Of various methods, it seems worst to me. I use a cleaning rod method, which I learned in the 70s.
But in the last ~15yrs I have not put in high precision efforts to determine 'in the land' (ITL) relationships, because I no longer care about it. I don't load bullets ITL. Instead I get a quick measure of touching, back off 5thou, and that's where I'll begin seating testing (going further away from lands in 10thou increments).
The gold in all this is best CBTO, so I could really care less about exactly where bullets would contact lands.
Oh, I know. Hornady named the tool which is a poor choice because it suggests it is capable of things it can not deliver on.
 
I started with the Hornady cases and the tool. As I learned a few things, I switched to the Wheeler method, using a stripped bolt and a piece of twice fired brass bumped back 2 thou. It works for me.
 
What drove me crazy with their tool was: set it up, same bullet each time, take 5 passes with it and come up with 5 different readings. Not off by a lot but you wind up picking 2 of the closest 5 readings and going with that.
Anyway that was my experience.
 
What drove me crazy with their tool was: set it up, same bullet each time, take 5 passes with it and come up with 5 different readings. Not off by a lot but you wind up picking 2 of the closest 5 readings and going with that.
Anyway that was my experience.
Yup! I’d end up taking ten measurements and doing an average. Always ended up thinking I was off!
 

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