Where is my accuracy?

[marchx]

I prepared my first batch of ammo using KM arbor press+ LE Wilson die. Fresh Lapua brass, trimmed to length, case neck expanded using carbide mandrel. BR4 primers. I checked the headspace and CBTO- I had 1thau variation in my first batch of ammo. Seating force displayed by KM mhc dial indicator was between 75-80.

I expected superb accuracy from this ammo. Unfortunately, this ammo produced normal accuracy at 100m. I was using a standard benchrest target. I expected to hit X exclusively. In 10 shots I had only 3 Xs. Most of the shots were placed on the edge (see attached). I assume also shooter's error since I was playing a little with my rear bag and my position behind the gun was not the same throughout my session.

 

[DngBat7]

Don’t mean to ask a dumb question, sounds like a brand new load. Did you test different powders, grains, seating depths?

 

[Papa Charlie]

What do you consider your norm?

Would have to delve into this with a lot more information if you are looking for recommendations or suggestions.

 

[davidjoe]

I prepared my first batch of ammo using KM arbor press+ LE Wilson die. Fresh Lapua brass, trimmed to length, case neck expanded using carbide mandrel. BR4 primers. I checked the headspace and CBTO- I had 1thau variation in my first batch of ammo. Seating force displayed by KM mhc dial indicator was between 75-80.

I expected superb accuracy from this ammo. Unfortunately, this ammo produced normal accuracy at 100m. I was using a standard benchrest target. I expected to hit X exclusively. In 10 shots I had only 3 Xs. Most of the shots were placed on the edge (see attached). I assume also shooter's error since I was playing a little with my rear bag and my position behind the gun was not the same throughout my session.

I think you need to adjust your scope down, and to the right. Then you will hit center more.

 

[Jager]

Well, the first thing you need to decide is if you're after 'group' or 'score.' They're not the same thing. Looks like, from the target you posted, that hitting the 'X' is a simple as making a couple clicks on your scope.

A few quick thoughts...

Shooting out the center of the target is rarely a good idea when developing loads, as your precise aiming point becomes steadily less precise as the target becomes more and more ragged. Having your group a little bit off-center is a good thing.

More importantly, pulling one load out of your hat - doesn't matter how carefully or precisely you built it - is statistically very unlikely to be a "good" load. That's why ladders exist.

And, last, having to constantly rebuild your position on the bench probably suggests the bigger thing going on here. Handloading "accuracy" runs into a quick limit when it runs into bench technique. Fix that and those handloads will suddenly get much better.

Best of luck!

 

[joshb]

We need a little more info. Did you just pull a load out of ???
I never sight my gun in to hit the bull on my target guns. I shoot for group.
On my hunting guns, I sight for bullseye.
I don’t see a problem with your target, loads or gun if that’s a five shot group.
If you’re putting one shot on each target.....well.........welcome to the game....

 

[marchx]

Don’t mean to ask a dumb question, sounds like a brand new load. Did you test different powders, grains, seating depths?

It's not a new load. I tested this load before. Now, with Arbor press, fresh brass and Wilson die I expected more consistency.

 

[marchx]

What do you consider your norm?

Would have to delve into this with a lot more information if you are looking for recommendations or suggestions.

My norm is 0.5 moa for a 5-shot group.

 

[Leeinmichigan]

Try using wind flags.

 

[marchx]

Well, the first thing you need to decide is if you're after 'group' or 'score.' They're not the same thing. Looks like, from the target you posted, that hitting the 'X' is a simple as making a couple clicks on your scope.

A few quick thoughts...

Shooting out the center of the target is rarely a good idea when developing loads, as your precise aiming point becomes steadily less precise as the target becomes more and more ragged. Having your group a little bit off-center is a good thing.

More importantly, pulling one load out of your hat - doesn't matter how carefully or precisely you built it - is statistically very unlikely to be a "good" load. That's why ladders exist.

And, last, having to constantly rebuild your position on the bench probably suggests the bigger thing going on here. Handloading "accuracy" runs into a quick limit when it runs into bench technique. Fix that and those handloads will suddenly get much better.

Best of luck!

thank you, Sir. I think that bench technique is crucial here. I shoot for score- 16 targets in a row during a match. If more people score 160, then number of Xs is decisive.

 

[marchx]

Try using wind flags.

good joke. We are talking 100m here.

 

[rwj]

good joke. We are talking 100m here.

This is a pretty common sight at sanctioned short range bench rest matches. How the flags are used to create shooting solutions is a mystery to me! But you’ll find the top shooters using wind flags and the winning group sizes to be much less than .5 MOA. Best wishes in your accuracy journey!

 

[marchx]

This is a pretty common sight at sanctioned short range bench rest matches. How the flags are used to create shooting solutions is a mystery to me! But you’ll find the top shooters using wind flags and the winning group sizes to be much less than .5 MOA. Best wishes in your accuracy journey!

View attachment 1290572

no flags are allowed during match.

 

[jelenko]

I prepared my first batch of ammo using KM arbor press+ LE Wilson die. Fresh Lapua brass, trimmed to length, case neck expanded using carbide mandrel. BR4 primers. I checked the headspace and CBTO- I had 1thau variation in my first batch of ammo. Seating force displayed by KM mhc dial indicator was between 75-80.

I expected superb accuracy from this ammo. Unfortunately, this ammo produced normal accuracy at 100m. I was using a standard benchrest target. I expected to hit X exclusively. In 10 shots I had only 3 Xs. Most of the shots were placed on the edge (see attached). I assume also shooter's error since I was playing a little with my rear bag and my position behind the gun was not the same throughout my session.

I'm not getting it.
The group that appears on that target is a smidgen larger than the very center circle. Assuming the center circle is the X ring, if you had adjusted the scope to center the POI, wouldn't all the shots have been an X?

 

[marchx]

I'm not getting it.
The group that appears on that target is a smidgen larger than the very center circle. Assuming the center circle is the X ring, if you had adjusted the scope to center the POI, wouldn't all the shots have been an X?

It's not a group. It's single shot. I shot 10 shots at 10 different targets. I got 3 Xs like this one below. and 7 shots "all over the place" meaning on 7 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 6 o'clock. I was aiming all the time in the X. My assumption was that POI should be in the same place on each target provided the ammo is ok and I do my part.

 

[CaptainMal]

Sure thought that first picture was 5-10 shots. It is just one shot?

The way you are describing things is confusing.

 

[DaveTooley]

It's not a group. It's single shot. I shot 10 shots at 10 different targets. I got 3 Xs like this one below. and 7 shots "all over the place" meaning on 7 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 6 o'clock. I was aiming all the time in the X. My assumption was that POI should be in the same place on each target provided the ammo is ok and I do my part.

Not if you have a .5MOA rifle.

 

[dogdude]

Expand those necks, I've used the K&M with the force gauge in many cartridges, None were in the 75-80 range.

 

[marchx]

Not if you have a .5MOA rifle.

You are right. This could be the case if Bartlein's quality decreased.

 

[marchx]

Expand those necks, I've used the K&M with the force gauge in many cartridges, None were in the 75-80 range.

I used 21st century expander mandrel. What is your typical range on virgin brass?