.762x39 for 100 Yard Group

[jackieschmidt]

I have been toying with this idea for a while.
I now have a 30BR LV rifle that I plan on trying in NBRSA Group. My own 112 bullet seems to be up to the task, the thing shoots pretty darned good.

The only problem is the recoil. While the 30BR might not be much of a thumper when compared to the majority of chamberings, it does give you a pretty good pop over an entire Grand Agg.

several years ago, Gene Beggs developed the 6mm Beggs by simply necking up the 220 Russian and retaining the body taper. The body taper did not seem to be that big of a problem.

What I am thinking of is what would amount to a 30 Beggs. A minimum case capacity 30 that would be User friendly.

Now I know that the Lapua .762x39 uses a large rifle primer. You could duplicate the case with a small rifle primer by necking up or blowing out a 220 Russia. But it would be great if the large rifle primer didn’t present a problem. A .33o neck would work fine.

4227 would probably be the right powder. Years ago, when I shot a 30PPC, that was the go to powder. One might ask, why not just go with the 30PPC. Well, making 30PPC cases is a major hassle, and the capacity is still a little more than I’m looking for.

No one lists a bonafide 762x39 tight neck match reamer. I talked to JGS and they said no problem. I figure a .short Freebore with a .330 neck Should work fine, I’m sure one of the custom die makers could come up with the dies to size the tapered case correctly.

I might even toy with cutting back .925 long J4 jackets to make a 100 grn bullet. Of course, I have to figure out a way to crop the jackets. Haven’t quite figured that out yet.

any thoughts?

 

[rockrat]

Remington at one time made small primer pocketed brass and Starline 6.5 Grendel brass is small primer. You could probably form your x39 case from those cases.

 

[WayneShaw]

Jackie, my understanding is there are "pinch" dies that shorten jackets. Never seen one but I'm sure you can find some info on them. Actually, I've gotten jackets that the mouth was tapered to the inside, I bet they were pinched off.

Seems like there is a fair amount of 4227 available now too.

 

[geo.ulrich]

Pinch trim die makes quick work ....

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Something in the back of my mind says that this has been done - 30 Major?. Obviously .308 would work better than the 310 bullets. I would suggest CFE-BLK or Win 296 (H110 etc) as a better or different powder choice - both certainly work in standard 7.62x39. It's also a project that I have had in mind for a while, but planned to use LR primers and a 12 twist ( why do the factory guns/SAAMI use a 9,45 twist for a 124g bullet?).

There's also an option to try a 30 Grendel as SR cases are available from Lapua.

 

[Ggmac]

I have been toying with this idea for a while.
I now have a 30BR LV rifle that I plan on trying in NBRSA Group. My own 112 bullet seems to be up to the task, the thing shoots pretty darned good.

The only problem is the recoil. While the 30BR might not be much of a thumper when compared to the majority of chamberings, it does give you a pretty good pop over an entire Grand Agg.

several years ago, Gene Beggs developed the 6mm Beggs by simply necking up the 220 Russian and retaining the body taper. The body taper did not seem to be that big of a problem.

What I am thinking of is what would amount to a 30 Beggs. A minimum case capacity 30 that would be User friendly.

Now I know that the Lapua .762x39 uses a large rifle primer. You could duplicate the case with a small rifle primer by necking up or blowing out a 220 Russia. But it would be great if the large rifle primer didn’t present a problem. A .33o neck would work fine.

4227 would probably be the right powder. Years ago, when I shot a 30PPC, that was the go to powder. One might ask, why not just go with the 30PPC. Well, making 30PPC cases is a major hassle, and the capacity is still a little more than I’m looking for.

No one lists a bonafide 762x39 tight neck match reamer. I talked to JGS and they said no problem. I figure a .short Freebore with a .330 neck Should work fine, I’m sure one of the custom die makers could come up with the dies to size the tapered case correctly.

I might even toy with cutting back .925 long J4 jackets to make a 100 grn bullet. Of course, I have to figure out a way to crop the jackets. Haven’t quite figured that out yet.

any thoughts?

Ive been shooting a 30 x39 for 15+ yrs with easy accuracy achieved. Seems a real easy cartridge to get accuracy out of . Used powders from 1680 to 4198, rel 7 , 748 and 2230 . All I asked PTG for was tight neck and made for 308 bore/ bullets . Id have to find the print . They did make small rifle primer brass for 7.62x39 . If I remember correctly it is IMI . It was good , pretty heavy brass. Again Ill need to find it . I started with a 24” barrel and had very little vel loss after cutting to 21” .
I think youll like it , I do .

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Something in the back of my mind says that this has been done - 30 Major?. Obviously .308 would work better than the 310 bullets. I would suggest CFE-BLK or Win 296 (H110 etc) as a better or different powder choice - both certainly work in standard 7.62x39. It's also a project that I have had in mind for a while, but planned to use LR primers and a 12 twist ( why do the factory guns/SAAMI use a 9,45 twist for a 124g bullet?).

There's also an option to try a 30 Grendel as SR cases are available from Lapua.

A 30 Major is a 30 Grendel. It makes sense and is easy to form from Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass and uses small primers and flash holes. It's a winner and fits a ppc bolt face. Dies are simple. You can use Redding 6.5 Grendel dies if you open the neck portion and spec the reamer right.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Jackie, I think the large primer may be a problem. Depends on if it wants to run at high pressures. The primer pockets wont handle as much as a small primer will. Other than that I think you will be happy with it. I like to alter cases as little as I have to, I think if Lapua made 6ppc cases we would see an improvement in aggs vs all the case prep work needed to get the 220 into a ppc. So I like your idea as it does not mess with the virgin case much.

 

[AlNyhus]

Jackie, you might take a look at the using the Norma 6PPC cases as a starting point. I've necked a few to .30 and they act just like the Lapua 6BR case being necked to .30 for a 30BR. The case heads appear to be plenty stout and the primer pockets are tight. I've over pressured the beejeezus out of the 22 cal version with no issues.

Actually, I think a shortened 30BR specificaly aimed at the 4227-ish powders is worth doing.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Jackie, you might take a look at the using the Norma 6PPC cases as a starting point. I've necked a few to .30 and they act just like the Lapua 6BR case being necked to .30 for a 30BR. The case heads appear to be plenty stout and the primer pockets are tight. I've over pressured the beejeezus out of the 22 cal version with no issues.

Actually, I think a shortened 30BR specificaly aimed at the 4227-ish powders is worth doing.

Good shootin'. -Al

I know that Danny Hensley played with a 30br short (and long)for a while but I don't know any specifics. Others probably have as well.

 

[JASmith]

Consider the 30 Stewart as an option (.0077” group at 100 yards). It is a wildcat based on the 6.5 Grendel. Many folks use 7.62x39 as source brass for reloading.

Best Group Ever: Michael Stinnett’s .0077″ Five-Shot Group « Daily Bulletin

All target shooters strive for perfect shot placement. Well one man has come closer to perfection than any other shooter who ever lived. You are looking at Michael Stinnett's .

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[Bill K]

How about a 30TC, dies and all are available and you can form or use small primers in a case.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Consider the 30 Stewart as an option (.0077” group at 100 yards). It is a wildcat based on the 6.5 Grendel. Many folks use 7.62x39 as source brass for reloading.

Best Group Ever: Michael Stinnett’s .0077″ Five-Shot Group « Daily Bulletin

All target shooters strive for perfect shot placement. Well one man has come closer to perfection than any other shooter who ever lived. You are looking at Michael Stinnett's .

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but as I've heard the story, the 30 Stewart was conceived as a 30ppc with the shoulder moved forward(Improved). They started out with ppc/220r brass until they realized they were only a few thou shorter than a 6.5 Grendel and that it was easier to simply push the shoulder back a tad on grendel brass and neck it up, that necking up and fireforming 220r brass to get to the same end...and the brass by Lapua was equally good as the 220r Lapua brass. Kinda took the long way around... IIRC, the Stewart is only like .015 shorter than the Grendel. So, a 30 Grendel/Major vs a Stewart.. are essentially the same. I've never found 7.62 brass to be anywhere near the same quality as 220 or grendel Lapua brass. Not even in the same area code, in terms of how it handled pressure. One can make this hard or easy but the Grendel brass makes it a no brainer, imho. That and the fact that dies are so easy to make from redding grendel bushing dies. You literally just open up the bushing shelf a tad and drop in the larger bushing. That's it, if the reamer is spec'd right, to work well with the dimensions of the die. The pic is a little deceiving, as it appears the br is shorter than the ppc. I didn't take this picture. They are basically the same length to the shoulder. The Major is .070 longer to the shoulder than a ppc. Uses a ppc bolt face. Now, if you could get decent brass, a 7.62x39 Improved has a tad more capacity than the Major or the Stewart.

 

[jackieschmidt]

The main thing I am looking for is minimum case capacity. Something in the 25 grain range. By my calculations by retaining the case taper, the 7.62x39 case will hit this just about right, using 4227 as the powder under a bullet 112 or less. Maybe even H110.
The Grendal, Major, 30PPC, etc all have over the capacity I am looking for.
I have a real nice .332 neck 30PPC reamer. I actually shot that before switching to my 30BR. Making brass was a major pain, and the things did not last that long.

Alex might be right about the primers. That might be the stick in the mud about the whole idea. There is the option of necking up 220 Russian, but that gets pretty labor intensive. If it turned into a major hassle, I would just put up with the recoil of the 30BR In a 10.5 pound rifle.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The main thing I am looking for is minimum case capacity. Something in the 25 grain range. By my calculations by retaining the case taper, the 7.62x39 case will hit this just about right, using 4227 as the powder under a bullet 112 or less. Maybe even H110.
The Grendal, Major, 30PPC, etc all have over the capacity I am looking for.
I have a real nice .332 neck 30PPC reamer. I actually shot that before switching to my 30BR. Making brass was a major pain, and the things did not last that long.

Alex might be right about the primers. That might be the stick in the mud about the whole idea. There is the option of necking up 220 Russian, but that gets pretty labor intensive. If it turned into a major hassle, I would just put up with the recoil of the 30BR In a 10.5 pound rifle.

Faster burning powders do make a noticeable difference in recoil. I've shot the 4227's in a 30 Major and they work at around 28.0 grains. N120 has been my go to powder for it. Its faster than 4198 but slower than 4227. Works great for me but they have had some lot to lot changes over the last few years that I don't have my head around yet. Seems they went both too fast and too slow at times with it. I wish they had just left the old stuff alone! That stuff was perfect, consistent, clean, metered better than just about anything, etc...but they couldn't leave well enough alone. I shot it for 10 years and never coulda asked for anything better and they jacked with it. It does seem like the newer stuff is close to the old but there were wide variations for a while.

Get the capacity right and faster powders are a good thing, imo. Some are pretty spikey but not all. But you do have to proceed cautiously with the really fast rifle powders until you know what you're working with.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Pinch trim die makes quick work ....

Ge

Faster burning powders do make a noticeable difference in recoil. I've shot the 4227's in a 30 Major and they work at around 28.0 grains. N120 has been my go to powder for it. Its faster than 4198 but slower than 4227. Works great for me but they have had some lot to lot changes over the last few years that I don't have my head around yet. Seems they went both too fast and too slow at times with it. I wish they had just left the old stuff alone! That stuff was perfect, consistent, clean, metered better than just about anything, etc...but they couldn't leave well enough alone. I shot it for 10 years and never coulda asked for anything better and they jacked with it. It does seem like the newer stuff is close to the old but there were wide variations for a while.

Get the capacity right and faster powders are a good thing, imo. Some are pretty spikey but not all. But you do have to proceed cautiously with the really fast rifle powders until you know what you're working with.

Back when I shot my 30PPC, we used4227, but I was not what you get now. I think it was made in Israel,

we shot it hot. 2950 FPS there abouts, and it shot pretty darned good. Case life was abysmal.

And you are right. There was a fine line between the thing stacking or bullet on top of another and not being able to get the bolt open. I tried several powders, but this was back when you could not get N120, which would probably been a more user friendly choice.

That is, if you could make it agg as well.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Ge


Back when I shot my 30PPC, we used4227, but I was not what you get now. I think it was made in Israel,

we shot it hot. 2950 FPS there abouts, and it shot pretty darned good. Case life was abysmal.

And you are right. There was a fine line between the thing stacking or bullet on top of another and not being able to get the bolt open. I tried several powders, but this was back when you could not get N120, which would probably been a more user friendly choice.

That is, if you could make it agg as well.

Not sure about Israel but there was a Canadian and an Australian version. The Canadian was quite a bit faster. Too much so, ime.

 

[AlNyhus]

Mike, what's the water capacity of your 30 Major?

Jackie...same question on the 30PPC. -Al

 

[jackieschmidt]

Mike, what's the water capacity of your 30 Major?

Jackie...same question on the 30PPC. -Al

Al, I honestly do not know.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Mike, what's the water capacity of your 30 Major?

Jackie...same question on the 30PPC. -Al

It's been a while since I checked. I don't remember...Pretty much right between a ppc and a br, though. I may get a chance to check a few later on today.