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E C TUNER/BRAKE TEST ON MY REM 40X 260AI

Bill Norris

Bill Norris

Back in the Day
Shot this test this evening with my 40X 260AI. Hot, muggy, after a rain but at least bearable temps. This load was in my box since May 11th so I figured I'd give it a whirl and see how it would go. All loads were @ .010 OTL. Groups were fired bottom left to right. Then top left to right.
 

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Bill Norris said:
Shot this test this evening with my 40X 260AI. Hot, muggy, after a rain but at least bearable temps. This load was in my box since May 11th so I figured I'd give it a whirl and see how it would go. All loads were @ .010 OTL. Groups were fired bottom left to right. Then top left to right.
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It does look good. Why two Mark's at a time? Why not 1 or why not...five? How do you know how much is too much at a time and the biggest question is not how small you can make it shoot once but where do you go from there when it goes out of tune?

Those are the real questions with using a tuner, imho. I've spent the time to figure it out on mine but I can't tell you what it's going to take with every tuner design, on every gun. Both matter, although not as much as one might think. Be very thorough and methodical and you'll be able to answer my questions but your target, while it looks good, doesn't answer any of those questions. Clearly, moving the tuner matters. Now quantify each adjustment through an entire nodal cycle and you'll be on the right path.
Just my 2 cents worth.
 
gunsandgunsmithing said:
It does look good. Why two Mark's at a time? Why not 1 or why not...five? How do you know how much is too much at a time and the biggest question is not how small you can make it shoot once but where do you go from there when it goes out of tune?

Those are the real questions with using a tuner, imho. I've spent the time to figure it out on mine but I can't tell you what it's going to take with every tuner design, on every gun. Both matter, although not as much as one might think. Be very thorough and methodical and you'll be able to answer my questions but your target, while it looks good, doesn't answer any of those questions. Clearly, moving the tuner matters. Now quantify each adjustment through an entire nodal cycle and you'll be on the right path.
Just my 2 cents worth.
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Oh yea I'm just learning about this tuner thing. I'm searching for answers no doubt. The reason why I moved the tuner in increments of 2 is Erik's instructions on his "how to" video. I will go back and try a setting of 7 and 9 next time out but I realize it will be a different day and conditions which brings different results so it seems from my limited testing so far. I appreciate all the info.
 
Gents, I just received mine and am now waiting for my new chassis before I can start playing… just wondering if anyone has noticed any discernible impact on velocity with/without a tuner?
 
I put the EC tuner/brakes on my 6BR and 308 a few months ago. Pretty straightforward process, very much along the lines of tuning powder or seating depth. As mentioned above and in his vids, start at 0 and jump by 2 full increments to get a node or nodes where the groups tighten up over a series of settings. Then start adjusting in smaller increments within that range to find the tightest, most consistent settings. I typically pick the number in the middle for my final setting. To illustrate what I mean, here's the process I went thought on my rifles (I'm just going to use the 6BR here so I can show the actual numbers).

1. Set tuner to 0, fire three shots
2. Jump to 2, three more rounds
3. Continue this through ~two revolutions of the tuner (you'll probably see the point at which it just starts repeating grouping patterns)
4. Went back and found two different nodes of three consecutive settings that produced pretty tight groups I found that 2, 4, and 6, and 14, 16, and 20 had the best results
5. Re-shot 2/4/6 and 14/16/20 settings (three shots again) and decided the 2/4/6 was better
6. Shot more 3-round groups at the 2/3/4/5/6 settings. Now 3-5 seemed best
7. From here on, I started shooting five-shot groups
7. Shot at 3/3.5/4/4.5/5/5.5. Added 5.5 just to see if it would open up the group. It did.
8. At this point, the 4/4.5/5 group was clearly the best. Had .1-ish vertical and .2 to .3 horizontal. (Edit: the small vert/horiz was at 4.5, not all of these settings :)
9. Picked 4.5 (in the middle!) and have shot that since with excellent results.

As an aside, I do shoot a match where the brake is not allowed, so I took it off and just screwed the tuner-collar on. I had to redo the test, but it worked just as well. Ended it up using 20.5 with just the collar. BTW, I did contact Erik before using just the collar, and he said "Tuner is threaded 5/8-24 so you can put it right on your barrel".

Oh, all these test were done at 100 yards
 
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Just received my third E C Tuner/Brake in the mail today. See pic below of the open package. Yep, they send you a couple of suckers for the installation process. Guess I'll have to save it until I get my 6BRX back from Zack since that is the rifle that will wear this one. LOL.
 

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UPDATE/E C Tuner/Brake - From the limited amount of testing I've done so far, I will have to agree with F-class John. He states in one of his videos that there is no need to go past one complete revolution with the tuner. I have found that when doing this the tuner tries to duplicate or I should say the groups begin to look similar to the prior groups at a particular number on the previous revolution of the tuner. (Width vs. Height)
The more I shoot with this thing the more I ask myself why I did not get one earlier. But, in saying that the E C Tuner/Brake is no replacement for good brass prep, finding a suitable powder & charge, primer, etc. Time spent at the reloading bench with brass and watching all the details for accuracy pays dividends at the shooting bench that would be hard to come by otherwise. There simply is no "free lunch"
 
Bill - I would suggest starting with 2 tuner increments per group, shooting 3-shot groups, and completing one full turn of the tuner, starting from "0" (i.e. 0, 2, 4, 6, 8...all the way back to "1" after one full turn, as the tuner has an odd number of increments). I would also suggest starting by shooting at least two or three groups with the tuner set at "0", not only to get warmed up, but also to establish a group baseline. Hopefully, you will see an "optimal window" consisting of at least two or three successive groups that are very tight and round. I would then go back and test every increment plus at least one extra one either side of the "optimal window" using single increments. That will not only confirm the previous 2-increment (coarse setting) test, it will allow you to identify both boundaries of the optimal window to within a single tuner increment, so that you can better define the center of the window.

If you use a group size program such as "OnTarget, making a graph of group size (y-axis) versus tuner setting (x-axis) makes it very easy to see the "optimal window" as a valley or dip in group size spanning two or more successive tuner settings. It is not a bad idea to repeat the single increment tuner test spanning the optimal window on a couple different days with different temperature conditions so that when finished you have a set of tuner data covering low, medium, and hot temperatures, and can see how the conditions might affect the optimal tuner setting. If you do so, I would also recommend printing a picture of the tuner targets done under different conditions and keeping a copy in your shooting book, so that you have it with you as a guide in case you ever feel it is necessary to tweak it while shooting. Knowing how the groups change in shape/size as the tuner is twirled up or down can be important in that case, as Erik describes in his instructions, and having the target images would make the decision of which way to twirl much easier.

As you noted, the use of the tuner is not a replacement for good load development. Although the tuner can certainly shrink groups even with a sub-optimal load, a poorly developed load, albeit with the tuner set optimally, can still exhibit undesirable properties as the barrel heats up, during changing conditions, or on different days.
 
The good news is that setting the tuner is a pretty straightforward test. When you see the groups shrink nicely as in the picture you showed above, you know you're in the right spot. Best of luck with it!
 
I'm just a nobody here but I'm going to disagree with the "one rotation" advise. With a heavy barrel that advise is most likely true just because of the difference in mass between the tuner and the barrel, but with thinner contours there is usually a wider node somewhere that will be more tolerant of load changes. I guess it depends somewhat on what you are trying to optimize. If it were truly the case that only one revolution is sufficient then why is there so much more adjustment available on EVERY tuner.
 
PigButtons said:
I'm just a nobody here but I'm going to disagree with the "one rotation" advise. With a heavy barrel that advise is most likely true just because of the difference in mass between the tuner and the barrel, but with thinner contours there is usually a wider node somewhere that will be more tolerant of load changes. I guess it depends somewhat on what you are trying to optimize. If it were truly the case that only one revolution is sufficient then why is there so much more adjustment available on EVERY tuner.
Click to expand...
You may be onto something. I have only tried the EC Tuner/Brake on H/V tapered barrels.
 
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