Bleiker and Grunig & Elmiger
- Thread starter jbhotrod
- Start date
Well, the difference is that not all shooters have the same skill level, and there are very few capable of shooting at the level of Kevin Nevius. At some point, these things can start to matter.
1Merlin
Silver $$ Contributor
I would Really love to have a Bleiker or a G&E. Yes Sir. My point being that a wind meter, a set of flags and one case of ammo shot with care and consideration will will make a shooter hugely better that spending an extra 5K on a "Super Rifle" Once your equipment reaches a certain level, and that level being FAR below a 10K rifle, spending instead of practicing is an exercise in vanity and futility. You can't buy skill you have to earn it. When 5mph? wind moves a bullet 3 inches at 100 yards and you are spending your bucks on a rifle instead of working to improve through actual knowledge from practice....... If you are Kevin or have money to burn get after it but for the other 9,999 get a good rifle and learn how to actually shoot.
You are wayyyy too kind Erik - I was okay in my youth, but pretty average these days! LOL
Its so great to hear from you though, wishing you and all of the members of the 2024 Palma Team the very best of luck at the upcoming World Championships.
But I disagree that most shooters could not benefit from the accuracy advantages (and especially the ergonomic advantages) these rifles provide. There are so many adjustments that it can take some serious effort and time, but nothing replaces comfort in position. It reduces fatigue that affects everyone - of any skill level.
And the margins of error are so small to begin with. When I was coming up through the ranks (speaking only for myself) raw accuracy makes training SO MUCH more valuable. If your rifle as a system isn't capable of showing you where your shots are actually going - how would you ever discern if its you, your position, or the mechanical system at fault? That's also why I never understood people training with lesser grades of ammunition. At any skill level - you need raw accuracy, because it tells you with reliability where else the problems may actually be. You can't learn wind reading with a minute gun IMHO (smallbore, at say 100 yards), and you can't refine position on the ISSF target at 50 meters with much less than perfection.
But yes, Nationals and World Events are won with factory (non Bleiker / G&E) rifles all the time....but if I am an OTC athlete, without a gunsmith on call, give me the very best opportunity to win (which is a Bleiker or G&E any day, all day).
All the very best to you and Mia (please tell her I said HI!)
kev
At the recent European Championships, the Walther KK500 acquited itself very well, including a new junior record in the 3x40. However, I suspect those athletes did not buy their rifles from the local dealer, but were supplied directly from the factory. If you don't have that clout (or a coach with that clout), a Bleiker or Grunig is a wise investment.
Thinking of the Grunig and the dampening material at the barrel tenon, I have a memory that the Austrian Maennel had something similar: a two piece chamber, with an elastomer gasket. The action was exceptionally short, based on the 19thC Austro-Hungarian Werndl -think a rotary Martini breech. Sadly there were reports of serious QC issues.
Thinking of the Grunig and the dampening material at the barrel tenon, I have a memory that the Austrian Maennel had something similar: a two piece chamber, with an elastomer gasket. The action was exceptionally short, based on the 19thC Austro-Hungarian Werndl -think a rotary Martini breech. Sadly there were reports of serious QC issues.
I don't know, seems like you are pretty good, Kevin...
I will tell Mia you said hello, but you should make the trip out to shoot the Midwest Palma Championship one of these years! It's usually about the toughest field of Palma competitors in the USA, and it's only about 6.5 hours from you. You could probably make it in closer to 5 if you drive your Vette...
nilebartram
Silver $$ Contributor
Ten grand is a lot of money. I wish I could afford one. I learn to shoot on a W-52B and a 40X, when I got a Anschutz, I thought I reached Mt Everest. I agree with 1Merlin, good trigger , wind flags, custom barrel, you can learn a lot.. Grunig/ Elmiger I believe use Lilija barrel or is it Bleiker? My wife has put up with my shooting. Had a fuss when I spent $3000 on 22LR ammo. I am almost 70. If i was 40 and know what I know now. I would buy a Bleiker or Grunig/ Elmiger. 30 years ago the were probably a lot cheaper. Dollar had more spending power.
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Bleiker do fit Lilja, although I think they used a Swiss brand in the early 2000s (might be confused with the 300m versions). Grunig use Lilja and Shilen I think; a friend has a Shilen Ratchet on his Racer.
Bleiker and Grunig have never been cheap I believe, slightly less expensive at times depending of the exchange rate, but never cheap. Bleiker have only been making the Challenger .22 for about 20 years. Grunig brought out their version in 2010 I seem to remember.
Oh, and here is my Grunig & Elmiger Supermatch 200, Everything about this rifle is just right.
You have a very nice looking rifle. The wood is very eye-catching, much more attractive than many target rifle stocks. Your photography technique is quite good.
What is it that extends from the front of the receiver to the front sight?
What extends from the receiver to the front sight is what is called a 'mirage band', that reduces or eliminates light reflection from the barrel back to the shooter. Often, it has the company logo or the shooters name printed or silk-screened on it.
If you are looking for something to do with that rifle, the 300 Meter National Championships are in 2 weeks at Elk River, Minnesota.
Info here https://300meternationals.org/
Indeed, I should have recognized it for that.
On most rifles a mirage band is used to reduce the mirage that rises from a barrel that heats up. As the barrel heats up, which in the case of a .22LR would be more from heat generated by sunlight than from the ammo, mirage can interfere with seeing the target clearly. A mirage band prevents it. It usually has nothing to do with light reflecting from the barrel back to the shooter.
You say the rifle shown in your post is yours. Is it actually your rifle -- or is it something from online?
I'd like to second what Kevin said about the Racer. Back in the day I was one of the first people in the States to acquire the first generation Racer. I've shot thousands of rounds through it and never had a single failure of any kind. It's an exceptionally well-engineered weapon, in spite of the seeming overcomplication.
It also shoots exceptionally well. My best decimal score in international prone was a 625, and my best competition score was a 624. Olympic shooters that use the various Racer iterations have regularly posted scores in the high 630's. If you follow the international shooting scene, you would know that these are top results.
The Racer has since then evolved to its third generation--the R3--and from the looks of it, they've optimized the design and simplified some bits. It's also become much more popular and almost more common than the Bleiker in ISSF events.
The KK500 is also very popular these days. However, there's one ergonomic feature in the Racer that puts it above and beyond all other smallbore rifles in my opinion--the dry-fire switch. With a simple flip of the finger, you can turn the dry firing mode on and off. No need to mess with spent casings. Good position shooters spend 90%+ of their time dry firing, and it's a wonder that to this day G+E is the only company that even thought of adding this very simple and useful feature to the gun.
Here's a review of the Racer I wrote several years ago: https://sites.google.com/a/bluetentacle.com/racerreview/home/1-the-racer-barreled-action
It also shoots exceptionally well. My best decimal score in international prone was a 625, and my best competition score was a 624. Olympic shooters that use the various Racer iterations have regularly posted scores in the high 630's. If you follow the international shooting scene, you would know that these are top results.
The Racer has since then evolved to its third generation--the R3--and from the looks of it, they've optimized the design and simplified some bits. It's also become much more popular and almost more common than the Bleiker in ISSF events.
The KK500 is also very popular these days. However, there's one ergonomic feature in the Racer that puts it above and beyond all other smallbore rifles in my opinion--the dry-fire switch. With a simple flip of the finger, you can turn the dry firing mode on and off. No need to mess with spent casings. Good position shooters spend 90%+ of their time dry firing, and it's a wonder that to this day G+E is the only company that even thought of adding this very simple and useful feature to the gun.
Here's a review of the Racer I wrote several years ago: https://sites.google.com/a/bluetentacle.com/racerreview/home/1-the-racer-barreled-action
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The atch file is not available. Could you please explain how the dry fire switch works. Is it simply a mechanical block?
TKH
Hi, I updated the link and it should work now. My review explains the dry fire switch.
Each picture in the review is high res. Simply right click on the image and open it in a separate tab to view the big picture.
Here's a screen snap from G+E's catalog, pointing out various features of R3's fire control system, including the dry-fire switch:
You can download their entire catalog, among other documentation, here: https://www.gruenel.ch/en-site-downloads-g_e
That's another thing about G+E: their documentation is second-to-none.
You can download their entire catalog, among other documentation, here: https://www.gruenel.ch/en-site-downloads-g_e
That's another thing about G+E: their documentation is second-to-none.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Guys, I would never take a mule to a thoroughbred race!!
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