Powder storage

[Fast14riot]

Aside from climate controlled storage, has anyone ever used a dry gas purge gas blanket in open jugs? R134A (tetrafluoroethane) is commonly used to purge air in containers with polyurethane and other liquid rubbers (as well as the AC refrigerant in your car) and I have access to it through work, which got me thinking. Displacing air in the container with a dry gas might help long term storage of powders in less than ideal conditions.

Thoughts?

 

[Adam in WI]

Our 134 has oil in it, so aside from whatever environmental, health, or penal ramifications there might be I think I'd look elsewhere.

 

[Fast14riot]

Our 134 has oil in it, so aside from whatever environmental, health, or penal ramifications there might be I think I'd look elsewhere.

The 134 i have access too is sold specifically as a dry gas blanket, not as a refrigerant.

 

[Adam in WI]

How is the dispensing and recovery handled for that application? Just curious, I had no idea 134 had another use.

 

[riflewoman]

If you have a sealed container, why not just get a bottle of Nitrogen and purge. Or CO2?

 

[whatsupdoc]

How long do you plan on storing it?
Last year I went though a few pounds 46 year old IMR powder in my 6mm Creedmoor
Components were same except for.


New 2020 Lot IMR4831 43.1 grains
Stats - Average 3030.53 fps
Stats - Highest 3036.42 fps
Stats - Lowest 3025.33 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 11.09 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 4.36 fps



1984 Lot IMR4831 42.7 grains
Stats - Average 3028.17 fps
Stats - Highest 3034.53 fps
Stats - Lowest 3023.36 fps
Stats - Ext. Spread 11.17 fps
Stats - Std. Dev 4.48 fps

 

[Big Mc]

Aside from climate controlled storage, has anyone ever used a dry gas purge gas blanket in open jugs? R134A (tetrafluoroethane) is commonly used to purge air in containers with polyurethane and other liquid rubbers (as well as the AC refrigerant in your car) and I have access to it through work, which got me thinking. Displacing air in the container with a dry gas might help long term storage of powders in less than ideal conditions.

Thoughts?

I have powder I bought in 1963. Have it stored in a cool dry place. Nothing fancy . I just screw on the lid and store. Never saw a need to do anything else. Just my two cents Tommt Mc

 

[Fast14riot]

My biggest concern is my gun room is this current house is in the basement which has lightly flooded twice in the last 5 years (less than an inch of water, safes are on blocks) and I cannot control winter humidity when its 100% outside. We are looking to move sooner than later, but this is CA and housing prices are brutal.

The gas i get comes in a standard aerosol can like canned air for dusting things. No verbiage about recovery or anything. Not even in the SDS. It is guaranteed dry and filtered to 0.2ųm, safe for optics even.

 

[NV_Dmax]

I’d be more concerned about adverse chemical reactions to ingredients in the powder and whatever gas you use than I would be about powder going bad.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

Another solution looking for a problem. Just shoot the darned stuff. You’re sounding like a hoarder.

 

[Fuj]

I'd use Argon from the welders supply, but probably never would
store long term unless it was a freak find of unobtanium......

 

[whatsupdoc]

Get heavy duty heat seal Mylar vacuum bags and vacuum out the air and seal them.
I did a small test where I sealed a small Mylar bag with a humidity indicator inside and summerged it in water for a week with no change.

 

[KMart]

Aside from climate controlled storage, has anyone ever used a dry gas purge gas blanket in open jugs? R134A (tetrafluoroethane) is commonly used to purge air in containers with polyurethane and other liquid rubbers (as well as the AC refrigerant in your car) and I have access to it through work, which got me thinking. Displacing air in the container with a dry gas might help long term storage of powders in less than ideal conditions.

Thoughts?

If you insist on going on this adventure, you should use nitrogen or argon. Both are inert elements and widely used in the chemical industry to do just what you are thinking about. Tetrafluoroethane Is a man made chemical that may cause an adverse reaction to the powder that has many other chemicals in it.
You do not want to purge it.
Purging, in this case, is the process of maintaining a flow of an inert element through the powder. Instead you would want to store the powder inside a pressure vessel and maintain 1-3 pounds of positive gauge pressure on the vessel.
By far the best option is to store the powder in a cool dry place that has minimal temperature variation. When the powder warms up, various chemicals in the powder start to cook off and changes the composition of the powder. Same as warming up a pot of water on the stove.
Or, shoot all of it up in a reasonable period of time.

 

[Fast14riot]

I agree about finding better storage solutions, I was curious is all. I just looked at the product and was wondering if it was feasible. Its not like I went and bought a case of the stuff or am dead set on trying it.

 

[D Coots]

Doesn't or didn't the military store powder in water?

 

[whatsupdoc]

 

[cem]

If you insist on going on this adventure, you should use nitrogen or argon. Both are inert elements and

I suppose that you mean does not support combustion but really nitrogen is not inert. Try mixing nitrogen tri iodide or nitroglycerine or ammonium nitrate or a myriad of other compounds. There may even be some nitrogen in the gun powder.

I'd worry more about changing the moisture content of the powder mixture with a bone dry gas compared to ambient air. Don't know what the effect would be so I'd avoid making the test by happenstance.

 

[KMart]

I suppose that you mean does not support combustion but really nitrogen is not inert. Try mixing nitrogen tri iodide or nitroglycerine or ammonium nitrate or a myriad of other compounds. There may even be some nitrogen in the gun powder.

I'd worry more about changing the moisture content of the powder mixture with a bone dry gas compared to ambient air. Don't know what the effect would be so I'd avoid making the test by happenstance.

Nitrogen displaces oxygen which is more likely to promote a chemical reaction in this circumstance.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Nitrogen oxides from oxidizing (burning) atmospheric nitrogen (N2) by production of thermal NOX produce a nice pink smoke ring in my meats smoked in the exhaust gases of the simple wood and hardwood charcoal (no coal and nitrates like conventional Kingsford) I use to fuel my smokers. Noble gases like Argon (mentioned), Helium, Xenon, Neon, etc. are less reactive. Maybe "blanketing" would be a better term than "purging" for what the OP is discussing.

Smokeless powders get a lot of their energy from releasing the nitrogen chemically present in the nitrocellulose for single base plus nitroglycerin for double base.

 

[Fuj]

Nitrogen was used by the Navy to store the Phoenix munition's
fired by the F-14 Tomcat. I know this because the company I worked
for had a sub contract for monel, valve purging parts that were
put on a coffin like container that housed two missle's.