Hornady 6.5 147 gr bullets

[Stan Taylor]

Is anyone having a problem with these bullets stabilizing and. Having problems blowing up.

 

[Rodney]

I’ve had really good luck with these bullets. Have shot them out of a creedmoor at 2750 from an 8 twist barrel with less than MOA accuracy. Over 2800 fps using Reloader 26 with same accuracy. My 6.5 PRC has gotten these projectiles 3050 fps with good accuracy and that’s a 7 twist barrel. I’ve heard other guys having blowup issues, but I’ve not experienced anything like that,(knock on wood). Guess it depends on the barrel. Great bullet with a spectacular B.C.

 

[Stan Taylor]

I’ve had really good luck with these bullets. Have shot them out of a creedmoor at 2750 from an 8 twist barrel with less than MOA accuracy. Over 2800 fps using Reloader 26 with same accuracy. My 6.5 PRC has gotten these projectiles 3050 fps with good accuracy and that’s a 7 twist barrel. I’ve heard other guys having blowup issues, but I’ve not experienced anything like that,(knock on wood). Guess it depends on the barrel. Great bullet with a spectacular B.C.

What's the brand of barrel have anything to do with it a .264 groove dimension is what it is.

 

[Rodney]

The Creedmoor is a factory savage barrel. My PRC is a Criterion barrel from northland shooters supply. The savage barrel is a hummer. Bought it from NSS as a new take-off and it will consistently shoot 5/8” to 1/2” five shot groups at 100 yards. That’s with Hornady brass and NO wind flags. Not every day you get a factory barrel that will shoot that consistent, got lucky with this one.

 

[Rodney]

I miss read your second post. Didn’t say a certain brand would make a difference. Just replying with some personal experience that I’ve had. Guess I shouldn’t have mentioned what I’ve heard and read about other people’s experiences. They can speak for themselves. Anyway, when I first read your second post I thought you were asking what brand I use.

 

[pikespeakgoat]

Shot a match last August with my PRC, 147's at avg of 2977 fps. Several instances spotter said all they seen was grey puffs.

Have had no stabilization issues, shooting Ruger 8 twist.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Shot a match last August with my PRC, 147's at avg of 2977 fps. Several instances spotter said all they seen was grey puffs.

So you did loose a bullet on the way to target correct.

 

[pikespeakgoat]

Yes, more than one.

 

[pikespeakgoat]

Is anyone having a problem with these bullets stabilizing and. Having problems blowing up.

There are posts on various forums where people are having this issue with the 147's.

 

[Stan Taylor]

There are posts on various forums where people are having this issue with the 147's.

Thanks I appreciate your post we experienced the same thing I'm researching to try an alleviate the problem because they do shoot well guess we're gonna have to slow them down.

 

[hambone1971]

Thanks I appreciate your post we experienced the same thing I'm researching to try an alleviate the problem because they do shoot well guess we're gonna have to slow them down.

They do shoot very well, I have over 5000 through one gun now with no problems +-2730fps.
Just try and keep em well below 4000 fps and you'll be ok and your barrel will thank you. ;-)
HB

 

[Retired Grunt]

Is anyone having a problem with these bullets stabilizing and. Having problems blowing up.

Shot a Match first of May, one of the shooters had this problem, he was shooting a Savage 12 LRP, 6.5 CM. I heard his scorer telling him they were coming apart about 50 to 100 yards out.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Shot a Match first of May, one of the shooters had this problem, he was shooting a Savage 12 LRP, 6.5 CM. I heard his scorer telling him they were coming apart about 50 to 100 yards out.

Thanks for your reply I probably rebarrel his 6.5-284 to an 8 twist then an go back to the drawing board for him.

 

[Retired Grunt]

Thanks for your reply I probably rebarrel his 6.5-284 to an 8 twist then an go back to the drawing board for him.

I just switch to Berger 140 VLD's,

 

[STOMP442]

Quit using the 147s for anything serious years ago. Had too many issues with them coming apart in multiple calibers and barrels. They always seemed to work good at Creedmoor velocities but thats about it.

 

[243winxb]

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?49336-Berger-bullet-failure-test

Failures have several causes. The most common is produced by the core melting. The core melts because it gets too hot. The core gets too hot because of the FRICTION between the rifling and bearing surface. This has been proven to be the hottest part of the bullet as it moves through the barrel. This area has been shown in high speed, infared images reaching tempuratures at the melting point of lead.

Other causes for failure are excessive RPM. Since most shooters use factory (bullet or barrel) recommended twist rates failures due to excessive twist rates are rare (but do happen).

Rarer still is a failure caused by extreme barrel issues (damaged bore) extremely poor loading practices (damaged bullet) or extremely poor cleaning practices (which further increases friction).

Another extremely rare cause is related to bullet production issues. Bullet construction that is poor enough to result in bullet failure (and where bullet failure would not have occurred for any other reason) can theoretically occur in situations where standard QA and production procedures are ignored almost completely. I am sure that this is possible but is as unlikely as I can imagine (from all bullet makers).

These reasons for failure are true for all bullets. Bullets from every maker can experience failure under the right (or wrong) conditions. Recently, Sierra has made public that they are discontinuing the production of 6mm 117 gr DTAC due to repeated failures. I do not mean to pick on Sierra but this is a recent example. ALL BULLET MAKERS HAVE BULLETS THAT FAIL AND MOST FAILURES ARE CAUSED BY THE MELTING OF THE CORE.

 

[AndyA]

add me to the list of bullet failures. 1000yd tournament shooting 10's and 2 9's when miss came up. 0 points.

 

[Archer79]

I have lost some on the way to.the target @ 1000 but in a 7 twist...I never lost one in a 8 twist and shot lots of them

 

[BlueWater]

For the discussion.


Ran a few numbers on several 6.5/.264 bullets from the 123gr Lapua Scenar up to the 153.5gr Berger LR Hybrid Target.

Using a few online reference and calculator tools, did a comparison between the calculated stability of various bullets that people have used or referenced as possible candidates for longer-range shooting.


Calculators:

• JBM's bullet length reference list -- https://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/lengths/lengths.shtml
• Berger's stability index calculator -- https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
• Hornady's ballistic trajectory calculator -- https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/standard

Compared several bullets:

1. 153.5gr Berger LR Hybrid Target
2. 147gr Hornady ELD-M
3. 140gr Hornady ELD-M
4. 136gr Lapua Scenar-L
5. 135gr Hornady A-Tip
6. 130gr Hornady ELD-M
7. 123gr Lapua Scenar

The "stability index" (SG) calculation with Berger's Twist-Rate Calculator tool shows a loss of stability over distance, particularly for longer, heavier ELD/VLD-type bullets. According to Berger's calculator, anything below 1.5 indicates instability, and the lower the index the worse the problem gets.

Increasing the velocities can improve the stability index. But at the risk of melting the bullet.

Increasing the twist rate can improve the stability index. But at the risk of bullet disintegration.


Calculation Comparison

Seven examples in this comparison.

Given: 500ft, 75deg, 100yd zero, 100-1000yds.

"Factory" velocities and claimed ballistic coefficients (BC's) used. Doubtless, that increase velocities could be obtainable with tuned reloads, longer barrels, etc.


153.5 gr Berger LR Hybrid Target @ 2702fps muzzle, 1.514" OAL, 0.694 BC G1:
@ 2702fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.45 (unstable, marginally)
@ 2345fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.39 (unstable)
@ 2123fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.34 (unstable)
@ 1863fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.29 (unstable)
@ 1626fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.23 (unstable)
60fps faster @ 1000yds than the reference 140gr ELD-M
Drop @ 1000yds: 486.3 inches

147 gr Hornady ELD-M @ 2695fps muzzle, 1.439" OAL, 0.697 BC G1:
@ 2695fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.62
@ 2340fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.54
@ 2119fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.49 (unstable, marginally)
@ 1860fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.43 (unstable)
@ 1624fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.36 (unstable)
58fps faster @ 1000yds than the reference 140gr ELD-M
Drop @ 1000yds: 301.4 inches

140 gr Hornady ELD-M @ 2710fps muzzle, 1.374" OAL, 0.646 BC G1:
@ 2710fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.77
@ 2327fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.68
@ 2062fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.62
@ 1814fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.54
@ 1566fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.47 (unstable, marginally)
Drop @ 1000yds: 308.3 inches

140 gr Hornady ELD-M @ 2840fps muzzle, 1.374" OAL, 0.646 BC G1:
At greater velocities some reloaders are achieving:
@ 2840fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.79
@ 2446fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.71
@ 2202fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.65
@ 1917fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.57
@ 1658fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.50 (on the edge of stability/instability cross-over point)
Drop @ 1000yds: 276.9 inches

136 gr Lapua Scenar-L @ 2800fps muzzle, 1.347" OAL, 0.545 BC G1:
@ 2800fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.84
@ 2341fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.73
@ 2060fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.66
@ 1739fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.57
@ 1459fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.48 (unstable, marginally)
Drop @ 1000yds: 313.8 inches

135gr Hornady A-Tip @ 2800fps, 1.383" OAL, 0.637 BC G1:
@ 2800fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.69
@ 2404fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.60
@ 2082fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.55
@ 1874fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.48 (unstable, marginally)
@ 1616fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.41 (unstable)
50fps faster @ 1000yds than the reference 140gr ELD-M
Drop @ 1000yds: 288.1 inches

130 gr Hornady ELD-M @ 2850fps muzzle, 1.310" OAL, 0.554 BC G1:
@ 2850fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.92
@ 2393fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.81
@ 2113fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.73
@ 1792fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.64
@ 1508fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.55
58fps slower @ 1000yds than the reference 140gr ELD-M
Drop @ 1000yds: 298.2 inches

123 gr Lapua Scenar @ 2890fps muzzle, 1.298" OAL, 0.527 BC G1:
@ 2890fps (muzzle) -- SG = 1.87
@ 2407fps (300yds) -- SG = 1.76
@ 2112fps (500yds) -- SG = 1.69
@ 1775fps (750yds) -- SG = 1.59
@ 1481fps (1000yds) -- SG = 1.50 (on the edge of stability/instability cross-over point)
85fps slower @ 1000yds than the reference 140gr ELD-M
Drop @ 1000yds: 297.5 inches

 

[garyatlp]

Bluewater, I see you've put a lot of time into these charts but the gyroscopic stability of a bullet doesn't work like that. The SG at the muzzle will be as you have listed.
As the bullet goes downrange the velocity drops.
A bullet requires less spin at lower velocities to remain stable because the air forces acting on it are less.
The imparted spin on the bullet from the rifling slows down as the bullet goes downrange but not as fast as the velocity drops.
The result is that the SG will go up as it goes downrange.
Hornady's 4DOF app works well for getting the SG numbers downrange but the end result is if a bullet starts out stable it will remain so to the target as long as it's structurally sound.
Hope this is useful to someone.