.243 Win load with 95gr Berger VLD

[jmkasza]

I searched a bit, but didn’t find quite what I was looking for.. I’m looking for some input on load data/development for the Berger 95gr VLD hunting bullet in 243 Win. I just bought the rifle from a friend, it’s a Savage Model 12 BVSS with a very low round count. Twist is 1:9.25”. I picked up a box of the Bergers today and would like to be as efficient as possible in working up a load. Using Berger’s twist rate stability calculator it looks like I will need to end up on the top end of speed to best stabilize the bullet.. I’m thinking about 3000fps is the goal.

I have new Nosler brass to use and H4350/IMR 4350/IMR 4451/RL17/RL22/H4895 to test. Leaning towards the RL17, but open to suggestions. It will be single fed.

This “project” centers around me having the ideal deer stand to put this rifle and load to use this fall, but not a lot of time or components available to do much testing this year. Max distance would be about 250 yards from a perfect rest.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Oso]

My 243 loves H4350 with the Berger 105gr Hybrids at 3000fps. I played with the other powders and it just performed better. You'll just have to see if the powder and bullet combo work in your rifle. With that weight bullet you might be on the edge with the 1:9 twist. Load a few and give it a whirl.

 

[357Mag]

JMK -

Howdy !

I DK off hand, whether your Savage barrel is 26" ?

Apples and oranges:
In my " DEEP 6 " rifle w/ 29" 1-8 barrel, the best 5-shot 100yd group I ever shot was w/ the Berger VLD
over RL-22; and FED Magnum Rifle Match.

DEEP 6 has case capacity of 51.2gr H2O . Compare to .243Win @ 54gr H2O.

I like to shoot high load density, and RL-22 gave me great accuracy via use of a very nearly full case.
I did not have any particular velocity threshold I needed to achieve, and biased accuracy ahead of vel for my shooting needs. Many shooters would consider RL-22 to have too slow of " burn rate " for use in a case of this capacity, and.... my achieved vel was lower than what many might consider acceptable for that bullet wt.

Have read that RL-22 " burns " comparatively hot, and I am currently in the process of trying out other powders that are reputed to be temperature stable; and not reputed to burn as " hot ". I am going to the range today, to shoot various loads of RL-23, RL-25; and RL-26. And yes, these are said to have " burn " rates even slower than RL-22. Let's see what the range work shows.....

Will also say that I was able to shoot a completely-full case, using IMR7828 under any 6mm bullet wt; and still have safe pressure and good accuracy. But, RL-22 nudged it out in the latter category. In fact, I had one charge wt of RL-22 that I was abel to shoot under all 6mm bullet weights of 85 -107gr safely, and with decent accuracy. For best accuracy, I only had to adjust that core charge up or down a tenth; to obatin peek accuracy. That to me, was a pretty significant " node ".

If it proves RL-22 can't be out shot accuracy wise in my rifle w/ my loads, I'll accept the hotter burning 22; and replace the barrel as needed.

My point:
Given the .243's case capacity and the bullet wt you describe, you might consider trying RL-22 or even slower in burn rate; in your rifle w/ its barrel length ?

Best of luck in your endeavor !


With regards,
357Mag

 

[jmkasza]

My 243 loves H4350 with the Berger 105gr Hybrids at 3000fps. I played with the other powders and it just performed better. You'll just have to see if the powder and bullet combo work in your rifle. With that weight bullet you might be on the edge with the 1:9 twist. Load a few and give it a whirl.

What twist is your rifle? From what I've read, and Berger's calculator confirms this, is my twist rate is on the bubble for this bullet. Works for some, but not for others..

 

[jmkasza]

JMK -

Howdy !

I DK off hand, whether your Savage barrel is 26" ?

Apples and oranges:
In my " DEEP 6 " rifle w/ 29" 1-8 barrel, the best 5-shot 100yd group I ever shot was w/ the Berger VLD
over RL-22; and FED Magnum Rifle Match.

DEEP 6 has case capacity of 51.2gr H2O . Compare to .243Win @ 54gr H2O.

I like to shoot high load density, and RL-22 gave me great accuracy via use of a very nearly full case.
I did not have any particular velocity threshold I needed to achieve, and biased accuracy ahead of vel for my shooting needs. Many shooters would consider RL-22 to have too slow of " burn rate " for use in a case of this capacity, and.... my achieved vel was lower than what many might consider acceptable for that bullet wt.

Have read that RL-22 " burns " comparatively hot, and I am currently in the process of trying out other powders that are reputed to be temperature stable; and not reputed to burn as " hot ". I am going to the range today, to shoot various loads of RL-23, RL-25; and RL-26. And yes, these are said to have " burn " rates even slower than RL-22. Let's see what the range work shows.....

Will also say that I was able to shoot a completely-full case, using IMR7828 under any 6mm bullet wt; and still have safe pressure and good accuracy. But, RL-22 nudged it out in the latter category. In fact, I had one charge wt of RL-22 that I was abel to shoot under all 6mm bullet weights of 85 -107gr safely, and with decent accuracy. For best accuracy, I only had to adjust that core charge up or down a tenth; to obatin peek accuracy. That to me, was a pretty significant " node ".

If it proves RL-22 can't be out shot accuracy wise in my rifle w/ my loads, I'll accept the hotter burning 22; and replace the barrel as needed.

My point:
Given the .243's case capacity and the bullet wt you describe, you might consider trying RL-22 or even slower in burn rate; in your rifle w/ its barrel length ?

Best of luck in your endeavor !


With regards,
357Mag

I don't have any magnum primers on hand, any reason I cant try RL22 with Fed 210's?

And yes, I believe the barrel is 26"

 

[K22]

Have shot the 243 Win since the late 60's. With bullets heavier than 85 grains I found that IMR 4350 works great.

I have a few friends that swear by RL 19 in the 243 with heavier bullets. However, I've never used it since 4350 worked so well when I shot the heavier bullets in the 243.

Never used the Berger bullets either so I can't comment on them.

The most effective bullet I've used in the 243 is the Sierra 85 BTHP. I've taken a number of deer and a lot of varmints with this bullet. It truly allows the 243 Win to shine as an all around multi purpose cartridge.

Powders I've used with success with this bullet are IMR 4350, IMR 4064, Varget, and IMR / H4895. The caveat is that with this bullet avoid shoulder shots - wait for a broadside shot and place the bullet slightly behind the shoulder. The deer I've shot in the fashion drop where they stand or run about 50 yards or less and pile up. Never lost a deer to this bullet or in fact any other with the 243 Win. All my shots were under 200 yards.

One other comment - you don't need a tack driver for deer hunting. Once you get a load that can consistently group in the 1 1/2" range or there about you should be good to go. You don't need to waste a lot of components on load development if all you're hunting is deer. i.e. if you can you hit an 6 to 8" circle at the distances you intend to shoot you'll fill your freezer.

 

[jmkasza]

Have shot the 243 Win since the late 60's. With bullets heavier than 85 grains I found that IMR 4350 works great.

I have a few friends that swear by RL 19 in the 243 with heavier bullets. However, I've never used it since 4350 worked so well when I shot the heavier bullets in the 243.

Never used the Berger bullets either so I can't comment on them.

The most effective bullet I've used in the 243 is the Sierra 85 BTHP. I've taken a number of deer and a lot of varmints with this bullet. It truly allows the 243 Win to shine as an all around multi purpose cartridge.

Powders I've used with success with this bullet are IMR 4350, IMR 4064, Varget, and IMR / H4895. The caveat is that with this bullet avoid shoulder shots - wait for a broadside shot and place the bullet slightly behind the shoulder. The deer I've shot in the fashion drop where they stand or run about 50 yards or less and pile up. Never lost a deer to this bullet or in fact any other with the 243 Win. All my shots were under 200 yards.

One other comment - you don't need a tack driver for deer hunting. Once you get a load that can consistently group in the 1 1/2" range or there about you should be good to go. You don't need to waste a lot of components on load development if all you're hunting is deer. i.e. if you can you hit an 6 to 8" circle at the distances you intend to shoot you'll fill your freezer.

Good info, thank you. I don't foresee this rifle being used often for deer, but I really do have the perfect stand to use it this season. I'd really like to see how the Bergers perform in the field (I've never shot this bullet and may try it in other calibers).

In the relatively near future I will definitely look for the Sierra 85's to try, and probably V-Max 75's or 87's, as it will be used for coyotes and rockchucks 90% of the time. I will want to really dial in the loads for these, but I do want my deer load to be as good as it can be too.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Try the 87 Grain Berger HVLD'S as, they WILL,. "stabilize" even, in a 1-10 Twist.
The Sierra GK's shoot well, too !
I use, N-160 or, with, the 87's at 3,115 FPS ( See .243 Load Data for Details of, both loads )
Staball65 with, the Sierra 100's at, 3,000 FPS ,. see above note for, Load ^^
I also use, a LOT of IMR 4350 in the .243 Win as, it produces awesome, accuracy !
K-22 is, "Bang on" about IMR 4350 and my 80 Sierra's shoot, "tight" with it.
K-22 KNOWS, his "stuff" !

 

[357Mag]

I don't have any magnum primers on hand, any reason I cant try RL22 with Fed 210's?

And yes, I believe the barrel is 26"

JMK _

Howdy ! Nice to hear from you !

There is no reason why you can't try / use the primers you mentioned w/ RL-22.

Please let us know how it turns out, for you ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[357Mag]

JMK -

Howdy, once again.


Forgot to mention:
While my best group was shot w/ the heavier Berger VLD, I used their 95VLD and Sierra 95MK for both target work; and for shooting groundhogs. I like the idea of using a 95gr and not the heavier VLDs for the latter application. But again, RL-22 shot best w/ the 95s..... thus far.

I'll be continuing my range testing w/ the 95 " Tipped" MK and RL-23, -25; and -26 today.
I like the consistent tip shape the tipped MK offers, not to mention how it helps w/ bullet upset on varmint shots.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[K22]

In the relatively near future I will definitely look for the Sierra 85's to try, and probably V-Max 75's or 87's, as it will be used for coyotes and rockchucks 90% of the time. I will want to really dial in the loads for these, but I do want my deer load to be as good as it can be too.

If you want to go to an exclusive varmint bullet for the 243, the 80 gain Sierra Blitz or 70 Nosler BT are great ones that have work very well for me. Best powders I found for these are IMR 4064 and Varget but some rifles will do quite well with IMR / H 4895 with the 70 Nosler. In fact, my 2013 Browning X bolt loves this comb shooting in the 1/2 moa range.

I mostly use 223 Rems these days to hunt eastern groundhogs. But in the 70's I used the 243 exclusively for both deer and varmints and predators (foxes in those days).

I eventually switched to one bullet for all hunting applications, the 85 Sierra BTHP to simplify things. At first I was skeptical to use it on deer but a fellow hunter who I respected at the time encouraged me to try it so I did but at first only on doe. It worked so well I began using it on buck.

 

[jmkasza]

If you want to go to an exclusive varmint bullet for the 243, the 80 gain Sierra Blitz or 70 Nosler BT are great ones that have work very well for me. Best powders I found for these are IMR 4064 and Varget but some rifles will do quite well with IMR / H 4895 with the 70 Nosler. In fact, my 2013 Browning X bolt loves this comb shooting in the 1/2 moa range.

I mostly use 223 Rems these days to hunt eastern groundhogs. But in the 70's I used the 243 exclusively for both deer and varmints and predators (foxes in those days).

I eventually switched to one bullet for all hunting applications, the 85 Sierra BTHP to simplify things. At first I was skeptical to use it on deer but a fellow hunter who I respected at the time encouraged me to try it so I did but at first only on doe. It worked so well I began using it on buck.

Very good, thank you for the suggestions. Looking forward to trying some varmint bullets soon, but in reality that probably won't happen this season. Which may be okay given the current shopping situation.

 

[357Mag]

Very good, thank you for the suggestions. Looking forward to trying some varmint bullets soon, but in reality that probably won't happen this season. Which may be okay given the current shopping situation.

JMK -

Howdy, again !

Did make it out to my buddy's range, to find the upper charge limit for RL-25; when shooting 95T-MKs in my
" DEEP 6 " wildcat. No chrono numbers.... just wanted to find the upper limit.

Was thinking as a generality, the charge wt would fall between the max charge wt I had already determined for both RL-23.... and RL-26 when shooting the 95s. I realize things aren't always " linear " and thought the upper charge wt limit for RL-25 would be around 42.8gr ; based on previous test data from using RL-22, RL-23; and RL-26.

Determined to start conservatively, I loaded cartridges w/ 42.0gr , 42.2gr, 42.4gr, 42.6gr; & 42.8gr RL-25; to be fired in-order lowest charge wt to highest.

42.0gr pressure signs looked ok, same thing for 42.2gr. Fired the 42.4gr load, and saw all the case head expansion I needed to, so did not fire the 42.6gr & 42.8gr loads.

No groundhogs out that I could see from the shooting bench in Eastern Allen County; Indiana.
No soybeans or corn planted yet that I knew of, as it has been pretty wet in that locale'.

Group testing run-off between RL-23, -25, and RL-26 will shortly ensue.... now that I know the max charge limit for all 3; in my rifle. And yes, I am still using FED Large Magnum Rifle Match primers for all loads.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[jmkasza]

Turns out I don’t have as much IMR 4350 as I thought I did, so I’m gonna have to be careful. I’ve got some 90gr ELD-X that I can use, this is where I’ll try the RL17, to sight in and get a feel for the rifle. Then my plan is to shoot 3-shot groups of the Bergers with IMR 4350 starting at 40.2gr and working up in .2gr increments until max book unless pressure dictates otherwise.

This should get me in the ballpark for my desired velocity of around 3000fps and ideally find a good starting point to test seating depth.

Any suggestions on where to start for seating depth? Using my Sinclair tool I would be at .128 jump if I load to the SAAMI max of 2.710” but that is at the tail-end of Berger’s test for a hunting rifle. We’re only talking 24 bullets for Berger’s test, so that’s not too bad I guess. But I’d hate to start way off track when focusing on the powder.

If all goes well by this point I will still have half a box of bullets left, which is enough for a little practice and enough for deer season. Who am I kidding?! If it looks good after dialing in the seating depth I’ll track down another box.

I mounted a scope today and bore sighted, should be able to shoot in the next week or two.

 

[KY_Windage]

I bought a 243 Rem 700 Varmint (1:9) and shot it for the first time earlier today. Went with IMR 4350, CCI 250 and Berger 87 VLD. All 5-shot groups at 100 yds -- 39.0, 39.5, 40.0, 40.2 and 40.4, in that order from upper left. Scope on 25x. Breezy enough that most of the time I was having to wait for the wind to quit moving my target backer around before I could shoot.

Looks like around 40.4 is where I will need to be with that bullet. Wasn't far into the case as I wanted to start with very little jump.

I have some Sierra 95's I want to try, too. And some Berger 100's . . . lol.

 

[jeffreybehr]

Berger has TWO pages of (21) loads for the .243W. and its 95g. bullets, and they also have 16 loads for their 90g. Match BT Target, which probably would be a better match for your somewhat-slow-twist barrel.. You might buy the manual.

 

[jmkasza]

Berger has TWO pages of (21) loads for the .243W. and its 95g. bullets, and they also have 16 loads for their 90g. Match BT Target, which probably would be a better match for your somewhat-slow-twist barrel.. You might buy the manual.

Definitely. If I can’t find one locally next week I’ll order one. Been meaning to; knowing that there is that much info for 243 Win is just the push I needed. Thanks

 

[Ol Thumper]

Turns out I don’t have as much IMR 4350 as I thought I did, so I’m gonna have to be careful. I’ve got some 90gr ELD-X that I can use, this is where I’ll try the RL17, to sight in and get a feel for the rifle. Then my plan is to shoot 3-shot groups of the Bergers with IMR 4350 starting at 40.2gr and working up in .2gr increments until max book unless pressure dictates otherwise.

This should get me in the ballpark for my desired velocity of around 3000fps and ideally find a good starting point to test seating depth.

Any suggestions on where to start for seating depth? Using my Sinclair tool I would be at .128 jump if I load to the SAAMI max of 2.710” but that is at the tail-end of Berger’s test for a hunting rifle. We’re only talking 24 bullets for Berger’s test, so that’s not too bad I guess. But I’d hate to start way off track when focusing on the powder.

If all goes well by this point I will still have half a box of bullets left, which is enough for a little practice and enough for deer season. Who am I kidding?! If it looks good after dialing in the seating depth I’ll track down another box.

I mounted a scope today and bore sighted, should be able to shoot in the next week or two.

I’m not sure where your located but if your anywhere close to NE Tx I have a few extra singles of IMR 4350 I’d share to help you out. Guys on here have helped me and I’d be happy to help you if it’s workable.

 

[284winner]

What twist is your rifle? From what I've read, and Berger's calculator confirms this, is my twist rate is on the bubble for this bullet. Works for some, but not for others..


View attachment 1251696

I shoot the 95 VLDs in my Rem 700 with the same twist. They shoot awesome. I tried the 105s but no luck. The 95s will do fine on your barrel. I can't offer any load data as I only use H4831sc in mine. Excellent groups for sure at around 3150 fps. Good luck.

 

[jmkasza]

I’m not sure where your located but if your anywhere close to NE Tx I have a few extra singles of IMR 4350 I’d share to help you out. Guys on here have helped me and I’d be happy to help you if it’s workable.

Thank for the offer, I sincerely appreciate that. Hopefully I can squeak by with what I have and I'll be on the lookout for more.