What Next for Remington & Rem 700?

[divingin]

I know used ones will be plentiful for some time, but since there will be no more, what production guns do you think will evemtually end up filling the void?

Have you heard something to the effect that the 700 won't be produced when the new manufacturer spools production up? Or are you guessing?

 

[JDBraddy]

Have you heard something to the effect that the 700 won't be produced when the new manufacturer spools production up? Or are you guessing?

Simply went looking for the next one, noticed their absence on store shelves, was told Rem went belly up and was sold to a company that only wanted the Ammunition manufacturing portion, and didn't plan on manufacturing firearms, and that their would not be any more Remingtons comming. Didn't believe it at first, untill others dealers confirmed the basic story. I'm mot connected, have no inside knowledge, don't know if or how much of it's true.

 

[LHSmith]

I don't even think they are that great of a design. I had them for years and had extraction issues, feeding issues, galling issues, etc. They have never had the reliability and durability of commercial Mausers and Model 70s, and there is nothing special about the 700 action that allows a more accurate rifle than other actions.

The 700 series was designed as an inexpensive to manufacture action. Because steel quality had dramatically improved during WW-II, the actions were strong. Since manufacturing methods had improved, they were able to make a cheap rifle shoot well. Because they were inexpensive and worked okay they became very popular, and because they were popular lots of gunsmiths learned how to work on them and a big aftermarket developed for them.

The huge appeal for customizing Remmys came primarily because they were inexpensive. You could get a custom rifle built on a 700 for much less than a Mauser or M-70 action.

Nowadays it is not less expensive to build on a Remington. Add to that all the the affordable custom actions that come pretty much trued up all ready and are a superior design, and it's has to make a case for Remington 700s any more.

And if anyone would make a good quality CRF M-70 action clone for $800-$1000, I'd dump my M-70s and use the custom.

For such a mediocre design I wonder why so many Customs such as Kelbly so closely mimic the 700 series. I know quite a few SR BR competitors who won many championships and set a lot of records with 700's (Vince Pastorella, Roger Gower, K.L. Miller, Gary Long, -the list is too long, 722's-Eddie and Sarah Harren, XP-100 actioned rifle Denny Collins- (1st to shoot 250-25x with a 6 ppc no less), and even the 788 (Frank McKee). This was back in the heyday of IBS Score Competition before the rule change allowing custom actions in the 6x classes circa 1980- early 2000. Other non-custom brands were non-existent on the firing line. These were the shooters I knew, and I only knew a fraction of them since I did not start BR until 2003.

 

[timeout]

Simply went looking for the next one, noticed their absence on store shelves, was told Rem went belly up and was sold to a company that only wanted the Ammunition manufacturing portion, and didn't plan on manufacturing firearms, and that their would not be any more Remingtons comming. Didn't believe it at first, untill others dealers confirmed the basic story. I'm mot connected, have no inside knowledge, don't know if or how much of it's true.

That's not the way it went down. Vista Outdoors purchased the ammunition division of Remington. Ruger Corp purchased the Marlin rights (783's etc.) Roundhill has the rights to Remington Arms and they recently have been issued their license to manufacture firearms. Roundhill has the website up and there will be Remington firearms made again.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

For such a mediocre design I wonder why so many Customs such as Kelbly so closely mimic the 700 series. I know quite a few SR BR competitors who won many championships and set a lot of records with 700's (Vince Pastorella, Roger Gower, K.L. Miller, Gary Long, -the list is too long, 721's-Eddie and Sarah Harren, XP-100 actioned rifle Denny Collins- (1st to shoot 250-25x with a 6 ppc no less), and even the 788 (Frank McKee). This was back in the heyday of IBS Score Competition before the rule change allowing custom actions in the 6x classes circa 1980- early 2000. Other non-custom brands were non-existent on the firing line. These were the shooters I knew, and I only knew a fraction of them since I did not start BR until 2003.

Thats true. Never see any of those far superior designs on the line. They are a nightmare to make right. Ask a gunsmith to build you a BR rifle on a crf model 70 or a ruger or howa and youll get hung up on

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I don't even think they are that great of a design. I had them for years and had extraction issues, feeding issues, galling issues, etc. They have never had the reliability and durability of commercial Mausers and Model 70s, and there is nothing special about the 700 action that allows a more accurate rifle than other actions.

The 700 series was designed as an inexpensive to manufacture action. Because steel quality had dramatically improved during WW-II, the actions were strong. Since manufacturing methods had improved, they were able to make a cheap rifle shoot well. Because they were inexpensive and worked okay they became very popular, and because they were popular lots of gunsmiths learned how to work on them and a big aftermarket developed for them.

The huge appeal for customizing Remmys came primarily because they were inexpensive. You could get a custom rifle built on a 700 for much less than a Mauser or M-70 action.

Nowadays it is not less expensive to build on a Remington. Add to that all the the affordable custom actions that come pretty much trued up all ready and are a superior design, and it's has to make a case for Remington 700s any more.

And if anyone would make a good quality CRF M-70 action clone for $800-$1000, I'd dump my M-70s and use the custom.

See if you can find a montana 1999. I built one when they first came out.

Montana Rifle Actions from Montana Rifle Company

Montana Rifle Actions Highlights of the Model 1999 Action The Model 1999 Short Action The Model 1999 Long Action The Model 1999 PH Action The Model 1999 Bolt features

www.africahunting.com

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

I don't even think they are that great of a design. I had them for years and had extraction issues, feeding issues, galling issues, etc. They have never had the reliability and durability of commercial Mausers and Model 70s, and there is nothing special about the 700 action that allows a more accurate rifle than other actions.

The 700 series was designed as an inexpensive to manufacture action. Because steel quality had dramatically improved during WW-II, the actions were strong. Since manufacturing methods had improved, they were able to make a cheap rifle shoot well. Because they were inexpensive and worked okay they became very popular, and because they were popular lots of gunsmiths learned how to work on them and a big aftermarket developed for them.

The huge appeal for customizing Remmys came primarily because they were inexpensive. You could get a custom rifle built on a 700 for much less than a Mauser or M-70 action.

Nowadays it is not less expensive to build on a Remington. Add to that all the the affordable custom actions that come pretty much trued up all ready and are a superior design, and it's has to make a case for Remington 700s any more.

And if anyone would make a good quality CRF M-70 action clone for $800-$1000, I'd dump my M-70s and use the custom.

When registered benchrest became the crucible for improving rifle accuracy, the Remington 700 was preferred because it's difficult to make a competitive 10.5 pound rifle with a M70 or mauser action. Remington even cared enough about its reputation in benchrest to manufacture factory rifles capable of winning (at the time).

The same basic M700 design naturally carried over to the fully custom actions eventually produced for benchrest.

 

[INTJ]

For such a mediocre design I wonder why so many Customs such as Kelbly so closely mimic the 700 series. I know quite a few SR BR competitors who won many championships and set a lot of records with 700's (Vince Pastorella, Roger Gower, K.L. Miller, Gary Long, -the list is too long, 721's-Eddie and Sarah Harren, XP-100 actioned rifle Denny Collins- (1st to shoot 250-25x with a 6 ppc no less), and even the 788 (Frank McKee). This was back in the heyday of IBS Score Competition before the rule change allowing custom actions in the 6x classes circa 1980- early 2000. Other non-custom brands were non-existent on the firing line. These were the shooters I knew, and I only knew a fraction of them since I did not start BR until 2003.

They mimicked the footprint because it was popular. It became popular because it was less expensive. The 700 was just an easy to manufacture 2 lug style action based on the Mauser, like virtually all other bolt actions.

The "three rings of steel" is nothing but marketing hype. The 700 action is not more inherently accurate than most other designs. It's the barrel, bedding, and machine work that make a rifle accurate.

Custom actions have dominated BR for a very long time now. I started LR BR in 2005 and the only time I saw a Rem action was when someone just starting out. Most used custom actions even then.

I am not meaning to "put down" Remington actions because they still do what they always have done, and their flaws are well known. They just aren't as good of a choice as they used to be given what is available now. I doubt there is anyone left who, with no budget limitations, would build their dream rifle on a 700. There are still a bunch of us who would build a dream rifle using an M-70 or commercial Mauser action.

 

[INTJ]

See if you can find a montana 1999. I built one when they first came out.

Montana Rifle Actions from Montana Rifle Company

Montana Rifle Actions Highlights of the Model 1999 Action The Model 1999 Short Action The Model 1999 Long Action The Model 1999 PH Action The Model 1999 Bolt features

www.africahunting.com

I heard a lot of bad things about those being sloppy. Was that true? Also, are they still being made?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I heard a lot of bad things about those being sloppy. Was that true? Also, are they still being made?

I hear they went out of business and yes they rattled like a dodge

 

[INTJ]

When registered benchrest became the crucible for improving rifle accuracy, the Remington 700 was preferred because it's difficult to make a competitive 10.5 pound rifle with a M70 or mauser action. Remington even cared enough about its reputation in benchrest to manufacture factory rifles capable of winning (at the time).

The same basic M700 design naturally carried over to the fully custom actions eventually produced for benchrest.

That is true, M-70s and Mauser actions were a little heavier than a short action Remmy, and the more weight in the barrel the better. Though IIRC, the first custom actions used more of a push feed M-70 style bolt and extractor, which of course was based on one of Mausers early designs. Nowadays many customs have a coned breech like a CRF M-70. I am not sure who first made a coned breech, but I bet it was a long time ago.

A Rem action needed to be sleeved to truly be competitive, and I am not sure a sleeved Remmy was any lighter than the other actions. I know of one gunsmith who built a push feed M-70 into a very competitive short range BR rifle, but he wouldn't have had many off the shelf parts available.

 

[jelenko]

Boy, guaranteeing .250MOA accuracy would be a bit of a two edge sword. Achieving that would require, imo, superbly made lapped barrels, actions equal to a custom in areas like thread squareness, lug engagement, perfectly flat action face, etc. Getting there would cost $$ and in a hunting or varmint rifle I don't know if enough would pay the price to make it practical. Considerable attention to details will get you 1/2" but it would take a yeoman effort to get to .25", consistently.

Yeah. In my musings, the objective would be to make a 'statement' in the market place about Remington's commitment to both what Remington is known for and to something their customers value. Like the Viper did for Dodge.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That is true, M-70s and Mauser actions were a little heavier than a short action Remmy, and the more weight in the barrel the better. Though IIRC, the first custom actions used more of a push feed M-70 style bolt and extractor, which of course was based on one of Mausers early designs. Nowadays many customs have a coned breech like a CRF M-70. I am not sure who first made a coned breech, but I bet it was a long time ago.

A Rem action needed to be sleeved to truly be competitive, and I am not sure a sleeved Remmy was any lighter than the other actions. I know of one gunsmith who built a push feed M-70 into a very competitive short range BR rifle, but he wouldn't have had many off the shelf parts available.

You wouldnt want controlled feed on a single shot and sure wouldnt want a mauser style extractor on one. Beeson made cone bolts for remington that most fitted up that was usually a good first step in building a br gun from a remington. Being able to engineer a 3lever trigger was also the reason a remington was used

 

[INTJ]

I hear they went out of business and yes they rattled like a dodge

There are many irritating things about CRF M-70 actions, like magazine spacers, and to get the legendary feeding you need the exact correct follower and magazine. With a Remmy, it was much easier to change cartridges. I doubt there is enough demand for claw-style CRF actions for a custom manufacturer to produce one. The claw is really only an advantage in extreme conditions anyway.

I have had good luck with the FN produced M-70s, though it's hard to find a stainless donor for less than $1k. The M-70 Classics often need a lot of work to get them trued up, but I guess I am stuck there if that's what I want.

 

[INTJ]

You wouldnt want controlled feed on a single shot and sure wouldnt want a mauser style extractor on one. Beeson made cone bolts for remington that most fitted up that was usually a good first step in building a br gun from a remington. Being able to engineer a 3lever trigger was also the reason a remington was used

You really don't want a single port either. I think it was because of all the mods that had to be done to a 700 to get it in BR shape that the custom actions started to dominate.

 

[DaveTooley]

"And if anyone would make a good quality CRF M-70 action clone for $800-$1000, I'd dump my M-70s and use the custom."

That's been tried.

"In early 2020 the Montana Rifle Company ceased operations. A press release[2] from the Montana Outdoor Group regarding the business closure indicates the ownership group will seek to restructure the company finances and will also seek new investors for an infusion of capital into the business. The press release indicates there was strong demand for the rifles but that the company was unable to scale to a level which could satisfy demand and remain profitable."

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You really don't want a single port either. I think it was because of all the mods that had to be done to a 700 to get it in BR shape that the custom actions started to dominate.

Back then most used a right port even on their customs- some top shooters still use a right port no eject (boyer and the late ron hoehn are 2 that come to mind). Something about that bomb having one more piece of metal between it and you.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

"And if anyone would make a good quality CRF M-70 action clone for $800-$1000, I'd dump my M-70s and use the custom."

That's been tried.

"In early 2020 the Montana Rifle Company ceased operations. A press release[2] from the Montana Outdoor Group regarding the business closure indicates the ownership group will seek to restructure the company finances and will also seek new investors for an infusion of capital into the business. The press release indicates there was strong demand for the rifles but that the company was unable to scale to a level which could satisfy demand and remain profitable."

I cant remember there being a “strong demand” for sure.
defiance makes a bolt similar to the m70 crf and a mausingfield takes that to the next level if you like crf.

 

[DaveTooley]

That is true, M-70s and Mauser actions were a little heavier than a short action Remmy, and the more weight in the barrel the better. Though IIRC, the first custom actions used more of a push feed M-70 style bolt and extractor, which of course was based on one of Mausers early designs. Nowadays many customs have a coned breech like a CRF M-70. I am not sure who first made a coned breech, but I bet it was a long time ago.

A Rem action needed to be sleeved to truly be competitive, and I am not sure a sleeved Remmy was any lighter than the other actions. I know of one gunsmith who built a push feed M-70 into a very competitive short range BR rifle, but he wouldn't have had many off the shelf parts available.

You should have seen the BR rifles Gail McMillan built on Remington 700's and XP-100. At the time they were top shelf. We did not have many options then but he built the best out there. No sleeved bolts.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

A Rem action needed to be sleeved to truly be competitive, and I am not sure a sleeved Remmy was any lighter than the other actions.

A Panda (updated version of sleeved 700) weighs 30.5 oz. A M70 weighs 42 oz. In a 10.5 pound rifle those extra 11.5 oz are better off in the barrel (or maybe the barrel and scope together).

Even a BAT DS weighs less than 2 pounds.