DUD Remington 7.5 small rifle bench rest primers

[Mark W]

Call it what you want, but I once tried to kill some with water and and they still off.

Just for fun I went down to the loading room and submerged 4 Remington 7 1/2s in water. I’ll pull them out sometime tomorrow and stick them in a 223 case and see if they will fire.

Update with results:

I removed the primers from their overnight soak and 3 out of 4 did not ignite. I saved the last one to give it some time to dry before I try it.

 

[GAnderson]

I never said the primers didn’t go off!!

OK...I was just trying to understand your post relative to the OP saying his primers did not go off when hit by firing pin...I took it when you said you "had the same thing happen" that you were implying your primers did not go off either...and I merely was asking why if the only thing missing was powder would the primer fail to go off. If the primer did go off I take it you had a bullet stuck in your barrel?

 

[Tokay444]

what cal. and brand is the brass????....pull the bullets on the mis-fires and make shure there is powder in those ctgs!!!.....primers must be seated to touch the bottom of the primer pocket ,,if not the anvil will not crush the pellet and a mis-fire will occour,,,,,.Roger

Please read all the replies.
He’s pulled the bullets and there was powder.
Primer seating has been illustrated.

 

[searcher]

I have not seen the FL die that will bump new brass more than a couple of thousands. I will call BS on immersing primers in water and having them go off. They might go off if you dried them properly. Priming compound is wet when they put it in the cup so it is INERT during the manufacturing process.

 

[skeeljc]

Thanks guys for all of your replies I gathered so much info it got my head spinning. I started by pulling the bullets dumping the powder 90% of them had moisture in the powder and sticking inside of the case. And I also measured the primer depth and it’s 0.005 on the virgin primers now when I was asked if I resized them no I didn’t, for some reason I was thinking resizing was meaning debur for the bullet. My die recommends with the shell holder Just touches the shell holder then turn 1 1/4 turn to seat the bullet. I also had orderd a hand primer tool so I can have better feel. I take take all the info I can get boys cause I’m new and very interested in it. Thanks again

Just let us know if the primers from the pulled dud rounds fire after they have dried out. You might lay the primed empty cases in the sun for a while to dry the inside of the case.

 

[Nic Swink]

Ok update I had pulled the bullets dumped the powder I let the cases with the primers still I and let them dry for a few days. I checked measurements and did the tape thing to the shoulder everything was checking out fine. I loaded them back up and everyone one fired just fine! Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[LHSmith]

On the "tape thing"- the bolt closed with 1 layer of tape, 2 layers, or 3? And you did apply tape to the headstamped end? Use a headspace gauge tool (Hornady, or Sinclair) to allow setting your sizer die correctly to avoid future problems.

 

[skeeljc]

Ok update I had pulled the bullets dumped the powder I let the cases with the primers still I and let them dry for a few days. I checked measurements and did the tape thing to the shoulder everything was checking out fine. I loaded them back up and everyone one fired just fine! Thank you all for your help!!!

Thanks for following up. Moisture and primers do not mix well.

When I wet clean my AR-15 brass I usually put them in the oven for an hour at 200 degrees. Otherwise I just leave them sit for several days in my shop which has controlled humidity.

 

[dellet]

Did you ever figure out the die issue where the cases were shorter after sizing?

 

[KY_Windage]

You cant kill primers soaked under water or oil for months

This is about as wrong as you can get, and it is easy to experiment and verify. I have done it. It is easy to make primers not go off, or go off with only 1/4 strength, depending on how many hours you soak them.

 

[KY_Windage]

My vote goes to water droplets in the case upon reloading. Tough to remove moisture from deep in case without some heat over time. BTDT

Mine vote also. Blowing them out with compressed air and then leaving them lying for 24 hours would NOT get all of them dry.

The same residual moisture that made SOME of the powder clump saturated your primer, preventing the primers from igniting.

You may have also blown out the cases but not the primer pockets, or at least not well enough. Also, compressed air itself can be very wet. Air compressors absolutely spew water with the air. It has to be filtered.

Bottom line, make sure your cases are BONE DRY before priming from now on.

 

[KY_Windage]

That's your problem right there. Don't do that unless you know exactly the dimensions of your chamber and you have the sizing die set perfectly. You need a comparator and fired brass from your rifle to set your sizing die properly. My experience has been that it takes virgin brass two firings to get to final dimension.

Huh? You have no idea whether he even touched his shoulder during resizing, much less set them back enough to create a headspace defect. The clumped powder is the clue that matters, because if there was enough moisture to do that there was enough to ruin the primer.

 

[KY_Windage]

This happened to me once, had me scratching my head, then I pulled the bullets guess what, no powder!!! Even though I was by myself I still had to see if any body saw what I had done!! You know like what you do after you fall !!

Everyone, please understand that the primer ALONE, with no powder whatsoever in the case, will push the bullet into the barrel at least an inch, usually more. Don't believe me? Try it!

It is important to understand this because I have seen two people fire a cartridge with no powder in it, not hear the primer ignite due to ear protection and other people shooting, THINK THEY JUST FORGET TO RELOAD AFTER THE LAST SHOT, and then load another cartridge in. One blew his rifle up, the other was stopped before he pulled the trigger.

If you EVER pull the trigger and think "nothing happened," you need to carefully check for a bullet lodged in the barrel.

 

[KY_Windage]

Surely your primers went off...the primer would have still detonated whether you had powder in the casing or not and generally a primer has enough power to lodge the bullet in the barrel, so I would think after the first one you tried, it would become obvious what had happened. I am not making lite of what you posted, just trying to figure out how your primer did not go off even without powder...

If the primers had gone off as normal, then NONE of the bullets would still be in the cases. Understanding this can save your eyes or teeth!

 

[KY_Windage]

The excessive head space created by bumping shoulders on virgin brass didn’t help. As stated, the primers haven’t gone off. As also stated, you could soak primers in water and they would still go off.

Put some water in some primed cases, let them sit for 24 hours and then try to fire them. When I did that experiment most of them FTF'd after only a few hours of soaking.

This past summer the guy beside me was chewing up the X-ring in a 600-yd F-class match when all of a sudden, at about shot #15, he shoots the berm several feet low. We'd had a lot of rain the match one month before, and he had let some water get into his cartridge box. The water got past some of the primers and that was all it took.

 

[KY_Windage]

My Redding body dies will crush shoulders back .030” if you let them touch the shell holder. I had a Hornady full length bushing die that would do the same.
As for wet primers, you don’t have to take my word for it.

I sometimes have to grind down the bottoms of my RCBS FLS dies down to get them reach my shoulders at all. Also, I don't think I've ever had new brass in any caliber that was not slightly shorter than the HS dimension I considered optimal. As noted, it takes a firing or three before they are stretched out to where they are too long.

 

[KY_Windage]

Virgin cases are often "short". I have had new cases that were .011 shorter than the chamber AND primer pockets in those same cases that were visibly deeper than usual. Yes, I had some rounds that failed to fire, but the primers were barely touched.

And that is another key clue. All the primers in the photo appear to have been hit PLENTY hard enough to make them ignite.

 

[LHSmith]

Too many have accused the OP of something he did not do. They merely assumed what had taken place based on their experiences. Stick to the facts as presented.
I will say this would not have gone to 9 pages if the OP had been more forthcoming when asked questions- we still don't even know what model gun (was it a Savage w/nut or have a new aftermarket barrel)?
Glad the OP has solved the problem.

 

[dellet]

Holy thread crapping, or derail or something.

A ton of things went wrong in this thread and it’s worth the time of every member here to read through it. Not as who you are today, but as who you were the first time you picked up a piece of brass and tried to figure out which die to stick it in first.

The fact that Nic stuck through this to the end and reported back says something for his character and desire to learn.

A good example of the pot calling the kettle black, was a since deleted post this morning bashing people for telling him to pull the bullet, because nothing could be found by doing that. Clearly they had not made to the part in the thread where wet powder was suspected or the part where’s that proved to be true and the problem.

LHSmith,
Part of the reason we don’t know what rifle is involved, is simply because no one asked. At least I could not find that question in this thread(actually LHSmith asked the question and I did indeed miss it on page 7). I agree he had a hard time keeping up with all the questions and some important ones went unanswered. Also a lot of important questions were never asked

What die was used? No one asked.

What press was used? No one asked.

The basics were not covered and many people went straight to the complex. When a reasonable theory was presented, a lot of others piled on in Ways that were kind of counter productive, partly do the the lack of knowledge that the OP has, but some of it became confusing to me also.

If you cut out the chatter in this thread and only read what Nic Swink posted, he did a pretty good job of answering questions, that he really had no idea what the significance was. He is that new to the game. He had/has a problem with terms and is learning them. If you really read his posts, this was clear, but instead of dialing down the dialog, it often got even more technical.

Maybe the next time you ask a new loader what the headspace measures, take the risk in insulting them and make sure they know what it is, flip side if you’re asked and don’t know admit it.

Sadly, reading through the posts in this thread, it seems that those who really could have helped the new guy, who took a softer approach and offered ways to gain knowledge, kind of got lost in the chatter.

The original question got answered, hopefully not at the cost of driving away the new guy.

Nic, if you’re still out there, check out this thread.

Tell me about the first time you reloaded...

I’ve got just about everything I need to start loading. I can’t help but be a little nervous about screwing up. Tell me about your first time reloading. What cartridge? What were your thoughts? Fears? How long before it became second nature? Put my mind at ease, I’ve got too much invested to...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Some of the really knowledgeable folks on this forum, got off to pretty simple starts. Don’t worry about where you are now and what equipment you have.

Look forward to some targets posted, and as many holes in the paper as loaded rounds taken to the range.

 

[LHSmith]

Let us know the results and what model rifle is it and is it strictly factory - no aftermarket barrel?

LHSmith,
Part of the reason we don’t know what rifle is involved, is simply because no one asked. At least I could not find that question in this thread.

Asked on Page 7