DUD Remington 7.5 small rifle bench rest primers

[wkdickinson]

The primer indentations in the photo appear to be plenty deep enough. It can be hard to tell with a grainy photo, but they do appear to be fine. That made all the headspace/which rifle/which die/primer seating, etc. questions snipe hunts for Nic to go on. He certainly does need to learn about all that, but it was not his problem. He did not do a bunch of things wrong, as he was accused of, he did one thing wrong -- failing to completely dry out his wet brass before priming and loading.

That was the point I tried to make in post #104 - primers appear to have been hit plenty hard.

 

[KY_Windage]

If the results are the same, I'll always choose to modify a $4 shell holder over an $80+ die.

The results are not the same -- the SH is hard enough to grab to remove as it is. Grinding it down would just make it harder. And its not like i'm ever going to sell the ground die.

 

[KY_Windage]

False.

As GAnderson put it, "generally a primer has enough power to lodge the bullet in the barrel."

Those were .204 rounds. I can guarantee you that every bullet would have left the case if non-defective SR primers had gone off with powderless cartridges loaded into the chamber.

 

[rebel]

Anyone else have this many duds at once?? View attachment 1226830

Wow, just wow. @ Nic Swink lookie at what you started. Been there, done that. Half or better of the comments here won't help you with your problem but will help you with who can put the longest yaller stream in the snow. Think you figured it out. If you need help, feel free to p.m me. I'll answer the best I can.

 

[Richard308]

New to the site and new to reloading, although I bought all my equipment when the world thought that Hillary was going to win. I got a box of Remington 6 1/2 small rifle and a box of 7 1/2 small rifle bench rest primers. My question to you guys is what is the difference? Can both of them be used to reload 223? That was the reason I bought them in the first place. Any help on the difference is greatly appreciated.

I believe the Rem. 61/2 are 22 Hornet primers.

 

[Tokay444]

I don’t shoot 204, but anytime I’ve had a primer go off without any powder in the case for whatever reason, I’ve still had to pull the bullet.

 

[Tokay444]

The results are not the same -- the SH is hard enough to grab to remove as it is. Grinding it down would just make it harder. And its not like i'm ever going to sell the ground die.

How would results not be the same? What results would be different? I’ve never had difficulty removing a shell holder. If that’s an issue for you, I guess I can see your reasoning.
I didn’t grind it. I turned it. If it were the die or the shell holder, the time and ease would be identical, so I chose the cheaper item to replace.

 

[dkhunt14]

Grinding a die down removes the radius at the entrance.

Redding makes shell holders that push the case further into the die. The set includes six shell holders: 0, +.002", +.004", +.006", +.008", and +.010".

Actually I believe that they do the opposite. Matt

 

[Mad_Charlie]

How would results not be the same? What results would be different? I’ve never had difficulty removing a shell holder. If that’s an issue for you, I guess I can see your reasoning.
I didn’t grind it. I turned it. If it were the die or the shell holder, the time and ease would be identical, so I chose the cheaper item to replace.

When I have had to make a shell holder shorter I did it with it fixtured on my surface grinder, very precise.
That said, I can't see how a few thou shorter would make it harder to remove.

 

[KY_Windage]

How would results not be the same? What results would be different? I’ve never had difficulty removing a shell holder. If that’s an issue for you, I guess I can see your reasoning.
I didn’t grind it. I turned it. If it were the die or the shell holder, the time and ease would be identical, so I chose the cheaper item to replace.

But I am never going to "replace" either part. I chose to grind on the part that was defective, and easiest to hold against the grinding wheel. So you w/h cut down the shell holder -- who cares? It's not like I ground down the side of my ATACR to get bolt-clearance -- I think I paid $30 for it on eBay!

 

[KY_Windage]

I don’t shoot 204, but anytime I’ve had a primer go off without any powder in the case for whatever reason, I’ve still had to pull the bullet.

My guess is that you have never had a primer go off in a chambered cartridge lacking powder. I would not care what you think or say except that ANY TIME that is done the bullet is pushed into the barrel far enough that another round can easily be loaded in behind it. The first time that happened in my presence the shooter would have lost both eyes had he not been wearing safety glasses, because he did load another (charged) round and fire it, blowing his gun up. It sheared both lugs off the front of his bolt, which would have removed all his teeth had the bolt not had a third, safety lug on it.

The second time, the ignorant shooter was stopped before he could get the followup round chambered, but he most certainly then had to get a rod to push the stuck bullet through his barrel.

So I would hope no one pays any attention to your gross ignorance, or if they do doubt me, they load up a test round and try it. The bullet will come out of the case.

 

[dellet]

The only non constructive things that I can add to this thread is, anybody who used words like;
Can’t
Won’t
Never
Always
Absolute

Should not be listened to because they absolutely never will be right. If they can’t admit that, then they won’t ever learn a thing and will always be ignorant of what’s truly possible.

It is a scientific fact that a 45 acp case, loaded with a 250 grain .308 bullet, loaded into a 45 long colt chamber has the approximate muzzle velocity of 200 fps and will travel approximately 75 yards when propelled by a Remington 6 1/2 primer alone.
Proving once and for all that headspace, has nothing to do with primer ignition, neck tension is over rated and any known absolute can be debunked by a creative idiot.

The degree of wetness of the gun powder multiplied buy the amount of powder, divided by how long the cartridge has been loaded will determine if the primer ignites or if the bullet leaves the case. The primer can ignite and burn, without creating pressure.
Please see post #58

 

[DShortt]

My guess is that you have never had a primer go off in a chambered cartridge lacking powder. I would not care what you think or say except that ANY TIME that is done the bullet is pushed into the barrel far enough that another round can easily be loaded in behind it. The first time that happened in my presence the shooter would have lost both eyes had he not been wearing safety glasses, because he did load another (charged) round and fire it, blowing his gun up. It sheared both lugs off the front of his bolt, which would have removed all his teeth had the bolt not had a third, safety lug on it.

The second time, the ignorant shooter was stopped before he could get the followup round chambered, but he most certainly then had to get a rod to push the stuck bullet through his barrel.

So I would hope no one pays any attention to your gross ignorance, or if they do doubt me, they load up a test round and try it. The bullet will come out of the case.

I can tell you from personal experience that a primer can go off and the bullet can remain in the case with no apparent movement.
Your point about a fouled barrel is valid and certainly note worthy but you are simply wrong about the bullet always leaving the case when the primer goes off.

 

[Tokay444]

My guess is that you have never had a primer go off in a chambered cartridge lacking powder. I would not care what you think or say except that ANY TIME that is done the bullet is pushed into the barrel far enough that another round can easily be loaded in behind it. The first time that happened in my presence the shooter would have lost both eyes had he not been wearing safety glasses, because he did load another (charged) round and fire it, blowing his gun up. It sheared both lugs off the front of his bolt, which would have removed all his teeth had the bolt not had a third, safety lug on it.

The second time, the ignorant shooter was stopped before he could get the followup round chambered, but he most certainly then had to get a rod to push the stuck bullet through his barrel.

So I would hope no one pays any attention to your gross ignorance, or if they do doubt me, they load up a test round and try it. The bullet will come out of the case.

I have. Twice. And I’d wager I could replicate it over and over if I tried.

 

[KY_Windage]

I can tell you from personal experience that a primer can go off and the bullet can remain in the case with no apparent movement.
Your point about a fouled barrel is valid and certainly note worthy but you are simply wrong about the bullet always leaving the case when the primer goes off.

Okay, I certainly cannot speak to what is going to happen with every caliber, bullet, primer, etc. And in fact, I do not know what was in the cartridge that blew the gun up, or the one that stuck the bullet in the barrel. In the case of the second one, I know it made no audible noise other than the "click" of the firing pin dropping, because I heard it, but I suppose there could have been some powder in the case with no audible report. I assumed there was none because the bullet was only a inch or two out of the case, no unburnt powder was in the case or the action, and because it seems highly unlikely that a case would end up accidentally having only a small amount of powder in it.

But who knows! Maybe something else happened. I just know that you can have an inaudible report and still have a bullet stuck in the barrel from it, which means there cannot have been much powder, if any, in.

 

[KY_Windage]

I have. Twice. And I’d wager I could replicate it over and over if I tried.

Both you and DShortt say it has happened, so I have to believe you, my personal experience notwithstanding.

 

[skeeljc]

Actually I believe that they do the opposite. Matt

Correct. They reduce the shoulder bump.

 

[Nic Swink]

Wow, just wow. @ Nic Swink lookie at what you started. Been there, done that. Half or better of the comments here won't help you with your problem but will help you with who can put the longest yaller stream in the snow. Think you figured it out. If you need help, feel free to p.m me. I'll answer the best I can.

Thank you everything seems to be going well now!

 

[Hohn]

Those primers look fine. The question is how did the others get so deeply seated?
Wet powder, primers etc do not make a primer seat so deep.
If you measure the HEIGHT of a primer and the depth of the primer pocket in the case that's the end in my opinion. It can't sink to the shown depth IMO unless you really had 'squared ' the primer pocket to excess. You said you had not done that. I'm back to primer height and pocket depth.

I think it’s worth considering that the primers might not have been seated very deeply. I’ve seen cases with chamfered pockets (usually to cut out a crimp) and a correctly seated primer can look very deep when it isn’t.

 

[KY_Windage]

I think it’s worth considering that the primers might not have been seated very deeply. I’ve seen cases with chamfered pockets (usually to cut out a crimp) and a correctly seated primer can look very deep when it isn’t.

I know what you're getting at, but that common idea that primers not seated deep enough get pushed forward by the FP is suspect to me. Nic's rounds were 204's. It just so happens that I did an experiment last year with a 204 to see if non-fully-seated primers get pushed forward. I deadened a 7.5 primer by soaking it in WD-40, then loaded it in a case that had been fired several times (so the pocket was not tight), seating it to exactly flush, which was much higher than it w/h/b if I had seated it all the way to the bottom of the pocket.

Then I put that case in my rifle and "fired" it. It made about 10% of the noise a primer usually makes. Then I removed the case from the rifle and looked at the primer -- it had not moved at all.

I would think that if a 7.5 could be pushed forward by the FP it w/h happened under those circumstances. I don't know how I could have made it any easier for the FP to push it forward.

Later, I wondered if something different might happen with a larger caliber and LR primer. So I loaded a CCI 200 in a .30-06 case, leaving the primer a good .020" proud of flush. This was a case that had been fired a dozen times. The primer went in (by hand) with very little pressure. Then I put it in my rifle and fired it.

It went off fine, but it did not move AT ALL.

So I'm starting to think that someone once THEORIZED that a primer not fully seated gets pushed forward, preventing ignition, published it and it has been "received wisdom" here, repeated over and over, ever since, even though it is complete BS.

Just thot I'd throw that out there.