Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

[jelenko]

Consider this like studs -vs- bolts.
That's what this is.
I believe you'll conclude that studs offer superior fastening, especially where the connection broadly challenges preload.

-With bolts, the first thread takes a third of the load, the first three threads take three-quarters of the load and the first six threads take essentially the whole load. Beyond the first six threads, the remaining threads are under essentially no load at all.
-With studs, the nut pulls ALL engaged threading into load -evenly.

Then there is direction of challenge (connection push/pull, tensile/shear).
Engine heads for example push apart from block, if not for fasteners holding their connection in preload.
This can be a lot of force, so studs, having greater loaded area, are preferred.
Racing engine heads are usually held down with studs (not bolts).
And I'll remind here that barrels also try to push apart from action.

I can think of nothing inferior with a stud connection, which is analogous to a barrel nut configuration.
Savage uses finer threading,, another plus.
Savages also shoot well,, another plus!

I looked at what a stud is. What I found was a threaded rod shown with a nut at each end - another one showed a threaded rod screwed into a material on one end and a nut at the other end.

If that's what a stud is, how is it different than a barrel that is threaded into an action with a nut tightening it?
Thanks

 

[Tokay444]

I looked at what a stud is. What I found was a threaded rod shown with a nut at each end - another one showed a threaded rod screwed into a material on one end and a nut at the other end.

If that's what a stud is, how is it different than a barrel that is threaded into an action with a nut tightening it?
Thanks

It’s not.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have done that too but had to have a bunch of recoil lugs of different thickness to make it work.
Between factory barrels and different gunsmiths that have done work for me they are all different specs.
When I setback or rethroat a shoulded barrel, I just knock off the shoulder and do what needs to be done, it gives the barrel a new lease on life and is farbetter that chucking it which is what you would end up having to do.

Dean

Start using the same lug like a hollands from here on out. Buy 10 of them and they will be the same. You could keep them in a cigar box and never have an issue

 

[rijndael]

I wonder if we put set screws or split a barrel nut with a locking screw, just like die lock rings, if this would also negate the inference of it being mechanically inferior?

Like the ARC Barloc?

BARLOC

www.americanrifle.com

 

[boltfluter]

Like the ARC Barloc?

BARLOC

www.americanrifle.com

Last I heard Ted had discontinued the bar loc due to poi shifts when swapping barrels. Not sure if he has come up with a modification to make it work yet.

Paul

 

[rijndael]

It’s available again, and there is a POI disclaimer on the page.

 

[JSH]

Some interesting thoughts and angles on the two. Some almost comical.

 

[okie]

Im probably gonna start laying a bead of 8018 around my barrel connections just to make sure they stay put....

 

[Tokay444]

Last I heard Ted had discontinued the bar loc due to poi shifts when swapping barrels. Not sure if he has come up with a modification to make it work yet.

Paul

It wasn’t when swapping barrels, it was when a seemingly insignificant, but sharp side load was applied, like being whacked off the side of a barricade.

 

[scope eye]

Im probably gonna start laying a bead of 8018 around my barrel connections just to make sure they stay put....

Don't forget to magnaflux.

 

[okie]

Don't forget to magnaflux.

yeah! I will get my neighbor (vet) to x-ray it also

 

[DiffEQ]

And that brings me back to my original thought. Barrel nuts are fine for most stuff but for the ultimate in accuracy a shouldered barrel is better.

My wife and budget thank me for not being OCD about accuracy.

Im probably gonna start laying a bead of 8018 around my barrel connections just to make sure they stay put....

Silver Solder. Less warpage....

 

[INTJ]

As for barrel swapping, a shouldered barrel will swap more consistently. Headspace will be the same

I still think threads on the receiver would be the best way for a barrel nut.

 

[Richard Coody]

Now personally if I am buying a serious rifle I want it built by a top of.the line.gunsmith with a shouldered barrel. Not because I think the shouldered barrel is so much better but because a gunsmith can do so much more to that rifle to make it the best it ever could be.

Biggest drawback is it just takes a long time to have a rifle built.

Now for a fun gun I am all about the barrel nut. Actually the barrel nut forms the shoulder. Only thing different is it is adjustable. For quick barrel changes without having to worry about headspace I glue the nut on with locktite. You can order another barrel even in a new cartridge and have it in a week. Or in normal times you can.

And a well built savage with a premium barrel and nut will shoot. Problem with them for bench rest is the trigger and cycling the action.

Original load development

 

[urbanrifleman]

Pdogs don't care if you have a nut or shoulder. They still explode just the same. Kaaabooommmm...

You can buy several at a time too

 

[urbanrifleman]

Now personally if I am buying a serious rifle I want it built by a top of.the line.gunsmith with a shouldered barrel. Not because I think the shouldered barrel is so much better but because a gunsmith can do so much more to that rifle to make it the best it ever could be.

Biggest drawback is it just takes a long time to have a rifle built.

Now for a fun gun I am all about the barrel nut. Actually the barrel nut forms the shoulder. Only thing different is it is adjustable. For quick barrel changes without having to worry about headspace I glue the nut on with locktite. You can order another barrel even in a new cartridge and have it in a week. Or in normal times you can.

And a well built savage with a premium barrel and nut will shoot. Problem with them for bench rest is the trigger and cycling the action.

Original load development

Awful. Get serious man. (this is sarcasm)

 

[INTJ]

@Richard Coody.

"Actually the barrel nut forms the shoulder. Only thing different is it is adjustable."

I don't think it's quite the same. A barrel shoulder provides a solid and true anchor point to support the barrel. With a barrel nut, it's the tension of the threads/stretching of the nut that support the barrel.

On the plus side, a nut is accurate enough for all but BR, and it would be a lot faster to machine. Just order a barrel with a shank slightly over the thread size, turn it to clean up with one or two passes; then thread, chamber, cone/recess, and be done.

 

[carlsbad]

It is very simple, if you never intend on removing the barrel until it is shot out go the shoulder route.
If you intend on removing it to swap barrels or for whatever reason, then you should go the barrel nut.
Me I like my Barrel Nuts.

Exhibit A

Dean View attachment 1227497

I say just the opposite. If you take your barrel off occasionally, as I do to swap to a fireforming barrel, you should use a shoulder. A shoulder ensures you get the headspace back exactly. Now if you're the kind of guy that is good with up to .004" difference in headspace, you can use your headspace gauge and be ok. but I wand it within .001 or less for minimum shoulder bump and identical case volume. wouldn't want to be fidgeting with headspace every time I switched barrels.

--Jerry

 

[jelenko]

Also, from what I understand, is, if the action is made consistently enough from action to action, shouldered barrels can just be screwed on - no need to cut the threads for headspacing.

If so, it's going to be easier to change shouldered barrels than ones with nuts.

 

[scope eye]

Also, from what I understand, is, if the action is made consistently enough from action to action, shouldered barrels can just be screwed on - no need to cut the threads for headspacing.

If so, it's going to be easier to change shouldered barrels than ones with nuts.

We are talking Remington here, and the quality in the latter years had only gotten worse.
Proper Headspace is 4thou no way you are going to get that every time, and that is for factory barrels.
Then take aftermarket "prefit" to what action? and then not to forget that every gunsmith has there own take on how things should be done. That is why I had to have over a dozen recoil lugs of different thickness to match the right Headspace.
Dean