Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

[INTJ]

I think for most applications a good quality barrel nut on a well machined barrel ought to be okay. However, as I think through this, I see some potential disadvantages.

With a well machined shouldered barrel, when you tighten it up it firmly and evenly engages the action. At most, you might get .001" more from just snug to heavy torque. More often I think it's less than .0005". This means the barrel is true to the action with no stress. This allows very heavy barrels to free float.

With a barrel nut, there is no barrel shoulder so thread tension must be what holds everything in place. The threads on the nut will stretch a little as will the threads on the barrel. They will have to stay in tension to keep the barrel nut square against the shoulder, so there will always be stress and the heavier the barrel the more the stress.

I suppose the only place where we would see any issue might be in SR BR or LR BR when conditions are excellent.

What have you guys seen?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

My opinion...
A well machined shoulder is a very good way to "point" a barrel. Threads pull the shoulder tight, thats all. In this situation the quality of the threads are relatively unimportant. When you go to a "floating shoulder" which is what a nut is, you transfer the job of point the barrel to the threads. I believe this to be a less precise way of doing the job and the quality of the threads becomes more important. Even with perfect threads I still feel a solid shoulder is more precise. Im not aware of any engineered part that relies on threads for alignment.

 

[boltfluter]

The only advantage of a barrel nut is the ease of manufacturing. I will take a shouldered barrel any day!

Paul

 

[NorCalMikie]

With a "shouldered barrel", you just put a smith back in the mix and no more DIY.
And the shouldered barrel has to be exact. I'll keep the nut Thank You.

 

[carlsbad]

The nut will never be as solid a joint as the shoulder. At recoil, the barrel is secured against a nut that is held in place by threads. A shouldered joint is structural metal on structural metal.

On the other hand, barrel nuts create a lot of "what is wrong" threads to keep the forum going.

--Jerry

 

[rjtfroggy]

Not a gunsmith but a question for those of you who are.
If the barrel nut is so bad why are Savages on the most part so accurate?
Why do so many people claim 0.50 or better group size with them?
And why did most gun makers start using them? Not custom makers of course but factory makers?
Disclaimer I had my two bench guns switched over to shouldered but they did shoot good with nuts, I just wanted to squeeze that little bit more out of them.

 

[mdbruce]

My opinion...
A well machined shoulder is a very good way to "point" a barrel....

Hi Alex - What do you mean by "point"? Thanks

 

[rijndael]

The bore is not in the exact center of the barrel. Some like to time it so the high or the low spot ends up at 6 or 12 o'clock. So, from the perspective of the bore, it points up or down.

 

[DiffEQ]

From a machine design perspective, a shoulder is much better, but a nut will help compensate for many unknowns in the manufacturing process, one of which may be lack of precision in machinery and operators.
Once torqued properly, if your nut loosens, you have bigger problems.
The nut behind the trigger is the PID factor in the whole process, hardest to tune, and on Pareto analysis, both the root cause in "what is wrong" threads and the best part to fix.
Some can't be fixed, should take up golf, and then argue investment cast vs. forged, or graphite vs. CrMo.

 

[AlNyhus]

My opinion...
A well machined shoulder is a very good way to "point" a barrel. Threads pull the shoulder tight, thats all. In this situation the quality of the threads are relatively unimportant. When you go to a "floating shoulder" which is what a nut is, you transfer the job of point the barrel to the threads. I believe this to be a less precise way of doing the job and the quality of the threads becomes more important. Even with perfect threads I still feel a solid shoulder is more precise. Im not aware of any engineered part that relies on threads for alignment.

THIS! ^^^^^^ !!!!!!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Hi Alex - What do you mean by "point"? Thanks

The shoulder determines the position of barrel relative to the action. The threads center it up but once the shoulder is tight against the action face that surface controls where the barrel is pointing. With a nut you dont have a shoulder. So you are relying on threads to control the position of the barrel.

 

[scope eye]

It is very simple, if you never intend on removing the barrel until it is shot out go the shoulder route.
If you intend on removing it to swap barrels or for whatever reason, then you should go the barrel nut.
Me I like my Barrel Nuts.

Exhibit A

Dean

 

[rogina]

Not a gunsmith but a question for those of you who are.
If the barrel nut is so bad why are Savages on the most part so accurate?
Why do so many people claim 0.50 or better group size with them?
And why did most gun makers start using them? Not custom makers of course but factory makers?
Disclaimer I had my two bench guns switched over to shouldered but they did shoot good with nuts, I just wanted to squeeze that little bit more out of them.

Accuracy in the .5 inch at 100 yards does not impress a lot of target shooters. If that is all the accuracy you need then it is good enough.

 

[Gappmast]

Barrel nuts look like crap

 

[scope eye]

"Barrel nuts look like crap"
Yes They are a real eyesore
338 Edge 11.75 twist 32" barrel I shoot 160gr TTSX's with 106gr of RL17 = 4200 FPS and it is alot more accurate than I will ever be, but what do I know.

Dean


Edge

 

[Trophied]

Okay, so do I, but someone still married me and stays married to me. Eye of the beholder and all I guess.

 

[INTJ]

It is very simple, if you never intend on removing the barrel until it is shot out go the shoulder route.
If you intend on removing it to swap barrels or for whatever reason, then you should go the barrel nut.
Me I like my Barrel Nuts.

Exhibit A

Dean View attachment 1227497

I swap shouldered barrels all the time. I make sure I chamber them so they headspace properly.

 

[INTJ]

Accuracy in the .5 inch at 100 yards does not impress a lot of target shooters. If that is all the accuracy you need then it is good enough.

That is exactly correct. A half moa at 100 yd barrel won't hunt in any kind of BR......

 

[scope eye]

I swap shouldered barrels all the time. I make sure I chamber them so they headspace properly.

I have done that too but had to have a bunch of recoil lugs of different thickness to make it work.
Between factory barrels and different gunsmiths that have done work for me they are all different specs.
When I setback or rethroat a shoulded barrel, I just knock off the shoulder and do what needs to be done, it gives the barrel a new lease on life and is farbetter that chucking it which is what you would end up having to do.

Dean

 

[Fast14riot]

Accuracy in the .5 inch at 100 yards does not impress a lot of target shooters. If that is all the accuracy you need then it is good enough.

I think part of this might be due to many factory barrels being bragged about as really good shooting 1/2moa and also many lower cost button barrels being offered in a barrel nut configuration.

I have two Criterion remage guns (4 CBI barrels total) and they are all shooters. My 260AI has shot in the .1's but averages around .25-.3 unless I really screw things up, which happens.