Adjusting Neck turner

[257Roberts]

I am working with my first Sinclair neck turning project. I am using a large bore turner and working on 350 Rem Mag form 300 Win Mag. These turners are kind of a finicky little thing to get set right.

Whats the science to getting the cutter depth [neck thickness] set right without running up the shoulder of the case.

Seems like i get the position of the cutter close to the shoulder, and then as i crank it down another few thousandths of an inch, i end up taking too much shoulder.

Any tips and tricks would be appreciated.

 

[RegionRat]

The pilot and neck diameter can't be too sloppy or there will be difficulty due to the rocking. Also, use good lube on the pilot to make sure it doesn't get hot or gall the brass.

Try to set the diameter cut first, and get it smooth along the length on a sacrificial case, and when that works well, then focus on setting the stop at the shoulder.

 

[Richard Coody]

Personally I don't use a stop. I freehand where I can take in any variation in the brass. Of course I only turn a few at a time.

I use a cutter with an angle that matches the shoulder and cut slightly into the shoulder. Thin that shoulder brass a little that will become neck. Cuts down on donuts.

I use the PMA neck turner. Very easy to adjust the depth of cut. I also.use their neck turning lube. I go slow and take my time never getting anything hot. You can always set the cutter on ice to keep it cool if needed.

 

[KY_Windage]

Trial and error. This is why I buy neck turning unit for each caliber. Once I get it set perfect I don't want to have to go through that again.

 

[oldroper]

You raise the pilot it has stop but neck length has to be same and square to pilot stop. The neck turn expander will match the pilot and need little lube.. Sinclair I have is pretty old. I don't use stop.

 

[biggun2869]

I am working with my first Sinclair neck turning project. I am using a large bore turner and working on 350 Rem Mag form 300 Win Mag. These turners are kind of a finicky little thing to get set right.

Whats the science to getting the cutter depth [neck thickness] set right without running up the shoulder of the case.

Seems like i get the position of the cutter close to the shoulder, and then as i crank it down another few thousandths of an inch, i end up taking too much shoulder.

Any tips and tricks would be appreciated.

Best advice is check out the video on youtube. There is quite a bit. Gary

 

[JimSC]

Like Richard above I prefer the freehand method. Seems to work for me. I am now up to a couple of hundred turned cases, on 3 different cartridges and have had no neck separations or doughnuts so far. I have half dozen firings on some of the cases now. When turning I just watch the bright shiny area and stop when it hits the shoulder, it's pretty easy to get the hang of

 

[skeeljc]

Trim your brass with a trimmer that registers off of the shoulder (like Little Crow) because the case turner stop registers off of the case mouth. Case length does not matter.

 

[skeeljc]

I had some 8X fired Nosler .223 brass that had a noticeable donut. I annealed it, FL sized it and expanded the neck first with a .223 dia. carbide pin and then again with a .2235+ gauge pin. I turned the necks to .011" thick. As I was turning the necks I noted that the brass chip coming off of the K&M turner became considerably bigger as the cut approached the neck/shoulder junction. When I finished a .223- gauge pin would pass completely through the neck.

 

[mikecr]

Whats the science to getting the cutter depth [neck thickness] set right without running up the shoulder of the case.

Neck thickness and amount you take into shoulder are different things.
Just set the cut to get the thickness desired, and touch the neck-shoulder junction a bit (by eye). If the cartridge will form to 30deg shoulders use a 30deg or more cutter angle. Never use a lower degree cutter than cartridge shoulder (or you'll dig in).
There is no reason to trim case mouths for this, and they should not be trimmed anyway until appropriate to do so(sometime after fire forming).
EXCESS CUT: JUST RIGHT:

 

[257Roberts]

Thanks folks for the help. I did do a FL size and a trim before attempting to turn necks.
I just fiddled a lot with all the screws to get my cutter depth and mandrel to be in the proper positions.
Seems like there could be a finer thread or a better method for getting those screws adjusted easier.

Either way, I got it I believe. My first couple attempts looked like mikecr left picture. I thought that was too much but was looking for confirmation. I finally got it very close to the right picture.

Anxious now to get some bullets loaded and go do some test firing.

 

[deweyduck]

My beginning experience doing neck turning was not good. All of my necks appeared to be lopsided, not straight. Actual turning resulted in smooth necks but they were still lopsided. I eventually discovered the concentricity was all over the map, from .003 to .008 out of round after bullet seating. The Hornady concentricity tool eliminated just about all of neck thickness problems by resetting the runout to .0005-.0015. Anybody have a comment yeah or nay?

 

[JFrank]

That sounds bad

 

[JFrank]

I am working with my first Sinclair neck turning project. I am using a large bore turner and working on 350 Rem Mag form 300 Win Mag. These turners are kind of a finicky little thing to get set right.

Whats the science to getting the cutter depth [neck thickness] set right without running up the shoulder of the case.

Seems like i get the position of the cutter close to the shoulder, and then as i crank it down another few thousandths of an inch, i end up taking too much shoulder.

Any tips and tricks would be appreciated.

I ran all my virgin cases through a Wilson trimmer prior to setting the PMA tool to just touch the shoulder, no issues..

 

[mikecr]

My beginning experience doing neck turning was not good. All of my necks appeared to be lopsided, not straight. Actual turning resulted in smooth necks but they were still lopsided. I eventually discovered the concentricity was all over the map, from .003 to .008 out of round after bullet seating. The Hornady concentricity tool eliminated just about all of neck thickness problems by resetting the runout to .0005-.0015. Anybody have a comment yeah or nay?

I turn only NEW cases, and these always have a wobble to them.
Doesn't matter. Just hold the cutter in your hand (floating) and the turn will be fine.

If your having to bend necks into a concentric condition for a good turn, then you're not floating the turn.

 

[skeeljc]

My beginning experience doing neck turning was not good. All of my necks appeared to be lopsided, not straight. Actual turning resulted in smooth necks but they were still lopsided. I eventually discovered the concentricity was all over the map, from .003 to .008 out of round after bullet seating. The Hornady concentricity tool eliminated just about all of neck thickness problems by resetting the runout to .0005-.0015. Anybody have a comment yeah or nay?

By "lopsided" do you mean that the neck thickness varied? Concentricity of the neck to the body is what most people mean by concentric necks.

When you FL size the neck OD will be concentric with the body (less than .002" t.i.r.). If the neck wall varies then the bullet will not be centered with the bore when the round is chambered. That is why you turn the neck. The neck turner pilot follows the neck ID as it cuts the neck wall. Then when you FL size the case again the bullet will be in line with the bore as the neck OD and ID will be concentric with the body.

 

[skeeljc]

I am not a fan of "tweaking" the bullet alignment like the Hornady device does. If your neck thickness is uniform and your sizing die is good the neck will be concentric with the case body, then when you seat the bullet it will be concentric with the case body.

Neck alignment starts with the external sizing. Expanding the neck induces some misalignment. Seating the bullet should not induce misalignment. A full length sizing die will align the neck with the body better than a bushing die. Expanding the neck by pushing a mandrel into the neck will induce less misalignment than pulling an expander out through the neck.

 

[deweyduck]

I am not a fan of "tweaking" the bullet alignment like the Hornady device does. If your neck thickness is uniform and your sizing die is good the neck will be concentric with the case body, then when you seat the bullet it will be concentric with the case body.

Neck alignment starts with the external sizing. Expanding the neck induces some misalignment. Seating the bullet should not induce misalignment. A full length sizing die will align the neck with the body better than a bushing die. Expanding the neck by pushing a mandrel into the neck will induce less misalignment than pulling an expander out through the neck.

Thanks for the reply. All I know is, the Hornady device reduces measured runout. Minimal initial runout is surely due to better sizing and seating dies. My opinion is, after runout is minimized, any remaining runout would be due to neck thickness variations. My tweaking comment means just reducing runout. Berger bullets seem to be very consistent with bearing surface diameter so any remaining runout would have to be due to neck thickness high spots. Then neck turning could reduce that to .0005" if you want. But for an off the shelf gun like mine, extreme precision is not in the cards anyway. I usually get groups in less than 1MOA with some pretty good ones in the .7 range. That's good enough for an ole Georgia deer hunter anyway. My initial problem as a novice reloader was not being aware of just how much runout existed in my procedure that could easily be eliminated and I think that contributed to some of my random flyer shots that made no sense.

 

[deweyduck]

I turn only NEW cases, and these always have a wobble to them.
Doesn't matter. Just hold the cutter in your hand (floating) and the turn will be fine.

If your having to bend necks into a concentric condition for a good turn, then you're not floating the turn.

Interesting; I can't figure out how holding the cutter by hand will give consistent diameter over the entire neck length. But I did not state my initial problem very well. The Hornady tool cannot eliminate any neck thickness issues, only minimiize the runout. Neck thickness variations causing high spots will show up after using the concentricity tool and remain after minimal runout is achieved. Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it so please feel free to help me anyway you choose..

 

[skeeljc]

Interesting; I can't figure out how holding the cutter by hand will give consistent diameter over the entire neck length. But I did not state my initial problem very well. The Hornady tool cannot eliminate any neck thickness issues, only minimiize the runout. Neck thickness variations causing high spots will show up after using the concentricity tool and remain after minimal runout is achieved. Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it so please feel free to help me anyway you choose..

The pilot mandrel in the neck turner is a tight fit (usually 0.0005" interference) with the neck ID. Holding the turner in you hand allows the pilot to follow the ID of the neck and cut a uniform neck wall thickness. If the turner is restrained the pilot will not follow the neck ID.