6mm BR vs 6mm PPC for 100-300 yd

[johara1]

I'm missing something here. Did the takdriver rules prevent long range shooters from using flags and shooting sighters?

No, but isn't how they are use to shooting, what would short range guys do if you took some away from them? An example would be hold it at a 600 yard range ? do you think you would compete?... jim

 

[johara1]

I suspect the "door" is open for you to organize a match to your liking.

It was years ago to be at Union county but again short range guys would not give anything up same old $hit.... jim

 

[Shooter13]

I agree with your post except for the last sentence. The tackdriver was a shortrange shoot they invited long range shooters too. Short range rules at short range. I like the concept but the disciplines have become so specialized I am not sure it's doable. Once again, bring your ppc and 30 br and shoot a 1000 yd match. Who are you kidding. Be satisfied to do well in your chosen discipline or gear up and try your hand at another one. The crossover from long to short is somewhat possible. The reverse, short to long is not. So let's compromise, 300 yds, sight in period then no return to sighters, 3 range winflags on either side of firing line, no other personal windflags. A short range with long range rules, it's doable. The reverse, long range 1000yds, with short range guns and rules is not doable.

So you are saying bring a knife to a gun fight?

 

[Shooter13]

No, but isn't how they are use to shooting, what would short range guys do if you took some away from them? An example would be hold it at a 600 yard range ? do you think you would compete?... jim

Hey Jim I would love to compete BUT I wouldn't bring a PPC or 30BR, I'd bring a gun to shoot 600 yards, not sure how this has gone downhill but as I said in another post "don't bring a knife to a gun fight" it wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Ccrider]

I believe except at the highest level of competition you are competitive with a br built to the same level, with the same attention to loading that you would give to a ppc. I firmly believe you can achieve more competitive results with a turn neck rifle as opposed to a no turn. No turn is for those wishing for less work as opposed to competitive results. Advantage of a br would be easier to go to a fast twist barrel to shoot heavier 105 class builds for longer range with enough boiler room for powder. If your committed to max 300 yds I would say 6ppc.

There are some no turn people winning and setting records that would not agree with you.

 

[JEFFPPC]

There are some no turn people winning and setting records that would not agree with you.

I am sure your correct. I would be interested in knowing what records in what disciplines.

 

[Ccrider]

I have been playing with BR guns fir a couple of years now. I got start with a savage 6br. Went to 6ppcs and now playing with a Dasher.

The 6br is easier to load for and get to shoot. If you get everything right, and a great barrel, it will shoot small groups. The 6ppc takes more work to learn and to load for. But, it will out shoot the 6br at short range all things being equal.

Don’t ask me about the Dasher. More work than the other two and I have not been able to get it to shoot with the other two at short range. But, that may just be my lack of expertise.

 

[WyleWD]

A discussion about a man going with PPC vs 6BR turns into a Tac Driver debate. How did that happen?

Thanks Bart!! I think Cabin Fever is going to come early and stay late this winter.

Hopefully the abrupt drift from the OP's question didn't scare him off. There's about half a dozen BR shooters within a half hour or 45 minutes of him of which 4 would probably be willing to help him out if I knew where he was planning to shoot and his current equipment. WD

 

[JEFFPPC]

Gun, gun, gun.......How about the shooter. Take the best shooter at any match that is inclusive of 100, 200, and 300 yds and have him shoot his rifle in 6br instead of 6ppc and I will give you even money he is still on top.

 

[Tim Singleton]

there’s a reason Jeff Pienhardt, Roy Hunter shot a ppc at 300 meters
It wasn’t because they couldn’t have shot or don’t have experience with
a BR, BRA or Dasher
They shot what would perform the best at that distance

 

[Tim Singleton]

Some real data to the OP question. All the small groups for the 2 day match at 300 meters
are high lighted in a different color. All are PPC
the only reason the men shooting them picked a ppc was from their experience that it is the best tool for that distance

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I am sure your correct. I would be interested in knowing what records in what disciplines.

It only matters what everybody else is doing. If everybody else is shooting at a 1moa circle it doesnt matter much

 

[JEFFPPC]

Some real data to the OP question. All the small groups for the 2 day match at 300 meters
are high lighted in a different color. All are PPC
the only reason the men shooting them picked a ppc was from their experience that it is the best tool for that distance

I agree as to their choice, but perhaps you should read the first sentence of the OP. I love the PPC but, give one of the men out of the group you mentioned a 6 br mandate, he will be among the top next year as well. Again, the OP is interested into breaking into our game at his club level local matches. 20 years ago I went to a 500 yd groundhogs match with my ppc and they told me I could not be competitive with it, I should get my money back and go home. Sill going with it, still winning. Only the elitist believe theirs is the only way to skin the cat.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Some real data to the OP question. All the small groups for the 2 day match at 300 meters
are high lighted in a different color. All are PPC
the only reason the men shooting them picked a ppc was from their experience that it is the best tool for that distance

Wayne and Jack are Hall of Fame shooters. Jeff is 1 point away from the Hall of Fame and a multi time Super shoot winner.(he might've made it in this year, hopefully). Terry is a UBR National Champion. I'm not sure if he's shooting a straight PPC or not, he'd have to answer but I've seen his name on match reports as shooting what may be a PPC Improved. And Tim, you're a very good shooter, yourself.

But if you're going to highlight small groups, do we not discuss the 1.5-2" ones as well, fired by the same people and rifles?

Again, we're still off subject but the conditions at that match clearly had a lot to do with who won, more so than what they were shooting..on that day. That's not a detraction from a PPC, just a real fact of the matter. If smallest groups are the standard, a 30 Grendel(Stewart) owns that one at 100, beating a 40 year old record held not by a ppc, but a 222.

I'm not a ppc hater. I'm just not swinging from it's sack, either, as there are other very good cartridges. BR isn't so much a game of small groups, but small aggs and big scores. I simply believe that those guys could've won that match with a 6BR or 6 Grendel..or maybe even one of the small 30's. I do more than my share of winning with something other than a ppc, in a game where there is a fair mix of different chamberings competing head to head.
So, here's where some would say something like.."but it's not group shooting." True, but the best on that day wins, be it a ppc, br grendel...a 30 or even a 22 cal.

A PPC will likely never be toppled as king of the hill as long as that's what everyone shoots. Most people will shoot what is "king." And when something else does win, well, it must be a fluke or that guy could win with anything..yada, yada.

Bottom line, if the op wants a good cartridge, a ppc certainly is that and yes, it's the winningest one, too...because it's very good AND there are very few of anything else being shot. UBR is the best at having a fair mix of chamberings being shot head to head and yes, a ppc is the winningest. It's also the most popular and the results are often still, a good mix of different chamberings at or near the top. Ultimately, the winner is almost always, the shooter that screws up least.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Some real data to the OP question. All the small groups for the 2 day match at 300 meters
are high lighted in a different color. All are PPC
the only reason the men shooting them picked a ppc was from their experience that it is the best tool for that distance

Wayne and Jack are Hall of Fame shooters. Jeff is 1 point away from the Hall of Fame and a multi time Super shoot winner. Terry is a UBR National Champion. I'm not sure if he's shooting a straight PPC or not, he'd have to answer but I've seen his name on match reports as shooting what may be a PPC Improved. And Tim, you're a very good shooter, yourself.

But if you're going to highlight small groups, do we not discuss the 1.5-2" ones as well, fired by the same people and rifles?

Again, we're still off subject but the conditions at that match clearly had a lot to do with who won, more so than what they were shooting..on that day. That's not a detraction from a PPC, just a real fact of the matter. If smallest groups are the standard, a 30 Grendel(Stewart) owns that one at 100, beating a 40 year old record held not by a ppc, but a 222.

I'm not a ppc hater. I'm just not swinging from it's sack, either, as there are other very good cartridges. BR isn't so much a game of small groups, but small aggs and big scores. I simply believe that those guys could've won that match with a 6BR or 6 Grendel..or maybe even one of the small 30's. I do more than my share of winning with something other than a ppc, in a game where there is a fair mix of different chamberings competing head to head.
So, here's where some would say something like.."but it's not group shooting." True, but the best on that day wins, be it a ppc, br grendel...a 30 or even a 22 cal.

A PPC will likely never be toppled as king of the hill as long as that's what everyone shoots. Most people will shoot what is "king." And when something else does win, well, it must be a fluke or that guy could win with anything..yada, yada.

Bottom line, if the op wants a good cartridge, a ppc certainly is that and yes, it's the winningest one, too...because it's very good AND there are very few of anything else being shot. UBR is the best at having a fair mix of chamberings being shot head to head and yes, a ppc is the winningest. It's also the most popular and the results are often still, a good mix of different chamberings at or near the top. Ultimately, the winner is almost always, the shooter that screws up least.

Great last sentence! I believe if Wayne, Roy, or Jeff shot a 6br next year they would still be at or near the top. Do you think that is incorrect Tim?

 

[Tim Singleton]

Great last sentence! I believe if Wayne, Roy, or Jeff shot a 6br next year they would still be at or near the top. Do you think that is incorrect Tim?

No sir not saying that at all. I'm just saying dont think other cartridges weren't explored tested and considered

I tested all summer ended up back on the ppc. I never could get a 6br to knot up really small even at 200yd in pretty good conditions like a ppc can and should

 

[Tim Singleton]

I have an idea to break into some local benchrest that is going to sound kind of whacked.

If I were to start with 6 br, everything is a bit easier/cheaper than 6 ppc. Is 6 br capable of being competitive at 100 yds as I learn to be competitive? Are there any reasons not to get in with 6 br? I’m guessing I would shoot similar bullets to the ppc. What twist 1:14”?

i guess I’m trying to confirm the br is good enough, until I’m good enough.

you never did say what type of BR you want to attend ?

the short answer to your last question from someone who usually takes the long way to get to somewhere is this
if all you intend to do is shoot local ground hog matches and club matches. Shoot Berger or Sierra Bullets in it, have a great time and meet/make new friends sure the BR will serve you just fine

 

[rogina]

No sir not saying that at all. I'm just saying dont think other cartridges weren't explored tested and considered

I tested all summer ended up back on the ppc. I never could get a 6br to knot up really small even at 200yd in pretty good conditions like a ppc can and should

I would venture to say that more good shooters have spent more time trying to keep the 6ppc in tune than any other case. That means more good results. Maybe that would happen with the 6br if the same amount of time and components were invested by the best shooters. A friend of mine, world record holder Lee Andrews, talked me into short range benchrest. I asked him what I should shoot? He said " do you want to win"? He said shoot a 6ppc. He was right.

 

[jcline]

Just as an FYI.... For anyone wanting to attend Tack Driver II there are 12 spots left and you can bring anything you want under a 338 and show the other 99 how its done. 100% without a doubt the SHOOTER will win Tack Driver II and not the cartridge!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Just as an FYI.... For anyone wanting to attend Tack Driver II there are 12 spots left and you can bring anything you want under a 338 and show the other 99 how its done. 100% without a doubt the SHOOTER will win Tack Driver II and not the cartridge!

I'm reluctant to sign up for anything a year in advance, during a pandemic but hopefully things will be better personally and with the "rona by then.

But sign me up! It'll be fun. Send me whatever I need to get registered. I'll talk someone into going with me or riding with.

Then we can talk about not seeing 6mm holes at 300 meters in mirage...and how a ppc is better for that too.