shoulderd prefit vs gunsmith barrel

[DangerRanger]

We are here for the ultimate in accuracy, not good enough or youll never see that difference on paper talk. Everybody wants to get better with their shooting. If you want to drive a camaro to its full potential you hang out and learn from guys with corvettes or some kind of racers not some guys driving 70’s model fords down at the donut shop. People come here for the latest tips and tricks they can use on their stuff not sit around and be satisfied with mediocre- theres other forums for that.

One of the few forums without “just as good” and good enough for ____ in every accuracy thread.

I get that it ends up going the other direction hard sometimes but it’s nice to have a forum where accuracy questions get answered by people literally competing in accuracy records instead of in ability to hit a deer or a plate

 

[AckleymanII]

I don't like nuts, they transfer the "pointing" of the barrels to the threads. I do "prefits" all the time for Bats, Bordens, Pandas, ext. The most important part of chambering is taking the time to really dial in a barrel. I mean really get it as good as your indicators can read. That takes time. Secondary but also important is cutting the chambers close enough so the customer can use the same brass and dies in every chamber, without adjusting them. Prefits just mean the action is not in hand. The real difference is cost. Your asking if a cheap chamber job is as good as an expensive one. Unless your smith is retired, no.

"dial in a barrel", Alex, I don't think they get it. Perhaps a video like your OAL to the lands is in order...the lights may come on!

 

[jelenko]

I wonder if it is a simple communication issue? It's always very clear in my mind what the end state application is. Maybe that isn't always understood?

Yeah. Sorry. I shouldn't have quote your post. I wasn't thinking about INTJ/your posts specifically. Just using your post as a segway into my point.

Looking back, it would have been better if I had just stated my thoughts in my own post.

 

[klamathsteel]

You get what you pay for. When you see a shouldered prefit finished ready to install for the price of a barrel blank or chamber job alone, sure itll shoot and according to what you want to do it may be fine. A shouldered prefit done by hand by a competent gunsmith is way different than a mass produced one done on a cnc. Banging steel is a different requirement than spending thousands to compete for an agg- thats the difference. Nut barrels are in a different ballpark. Ill echo alex above on them.

Have you shot any nut barrels ? Just curious

 

[Dgd6mm]

Damn, this place is starting to sound like Snipers Hide.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I think many of us who have been competing in extreme accuracy Disciplines for years forget what it was like when we first started out.
I was very fortunate to have several Mentors over 25 years ago when I decided I wanted to get involved in 100/200 yard Benchrest. My ignorance was overwhelming.
But ignorance is not a crime if you are willing to listen, learn, and apply that knowledge in the never ending effort to improve your equipment and your abilities to take advantage of those improvements in what ever shooting sport you are involved.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Damn, this place is starting to sound like Snipers Hide.

No, Please No!

 

[urbanrifleman]

Right. Sharing what works is one thing - saying that others 'should' do something is another.
What others should do should be in context of what they are trying to do. I think some here simply assume that what is needed/appropriate for benchrest level accuracy is what others should do without knowing what their objective is.

PS. I'm not trying to argue against your post. I just replied to your post because it seemed a good place to start the point I am trying to make.

Well said. That is EXACTLY what happens. A guy asks a question, and 20 posts later nothing short of winning the nationals at a bench rest competition will be considered "accuracy". The snobbery is palpable (and that's what it is). I have seen literally HUNDREDS of these threads devolve EXACTLY like that, and so have my friends... It is real thing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Have you shot any nut barrels ? Just curious

Hey, just installed one last night!

 

[urbanrifleman]

After 15+ years of chasing mechanical perfection (professionally and personally) in machinery where there will always be something beyond my dimensional control I decided that I am happy with 1/2 MOA rifles, where I then sling up and let the error come from my hold and execution. I find mastering myself much more gratifying than chasing an indicator to the nearest ten thousandth of an inch when there is more error in the entire machine and fixturing than that.. call me crazy.

I have been a breath away from setting a NRA national record from a sling with a CBI Remage on a run of the mill 700 shoved into an Eliseo @ 600 yards.. that’s 20 shots, from 600 yards in a 1 MOA circle with my elbows and a sling for support. I think 99.99% of the people out there would be tickled with that. I have never come close to repeating that feat from any other barrel I have had regardless of who did the work - from meh 700 to Borden and Barnard.

Here here. Matches are not won with equipment, not really. They are won by shooters who can call conditions. Most shooters at top level competitions are shooting the same equipment, or certainly equal.

And the group of people that shoot "benchrest" might be the smallest group of competitive shooters in the whole world. But every time they claim the high ground on knowledge.

If benchrest is so hard why is that I see 10 year olds BEAT their parents with their own rifle??? And those same kids can't "shoot" a rifle in the standard sense. Heck, they couldn't lift a rifle some of them...

 

[Richard Jones]

I think many of us who have been competing in extreme accuracy Disciplines for years forget what it was like when we first started out.
I was very fortunate to have several Mentors over 25 years ago when I decided I wanted to get involved in 100/200 yard Benchrest. My ignorance was overwhelming.
But ignorance is not a crime if you are willing to listen, learn, and apply that knowledge in the never ending effort to improve your equipment and your abilities to take advantage of those improvements in what ever shooting sport you are involved.

Post of the Day, right there. Thanks, Jackie

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Here here. Matches are not won with equipment, not really. They are won by shooters who can call conditions. Most shooters at top level competitions are shooting the same equipment, or certainly equal.

And the group of people that shoot "benchrest" might be the smallest group of competitive shooters in the whole world. But every time they claim the high ground on knowledge.

If benchrest is so hard why is that I see 10 year olds BEAT their parents with their own rifle??? And those same kids can't "shoot" a rifle in the standard sense. Heck, they couldn't lift a rifle some of them...

Thats funny. You should go shoot a match sometime when youre bored and feel like collecting some trophies

 

[urbanrifleman]

Thats funny. You should go shoot a match sometime when youre bored and feel like collecting some trophies

Shockingly, you misunderstood the post. You do that a lot. I was simply saying that a lot of people don't even consider shooting benchrest SHOOTING (not me, but some people). Although I can see their point. Setting up a rifle in bags and pointing it and touching a 1 oz trigger does not really translate into any other kind of shooting. I have to limit my benchrest shooting or all my other shooting goes to crap. As far as trophies, I know a few guys that love the brass and have won a lot of it. For some reason I am not obsessed with competing in every aspect of my life like some people. Hey, if that is your thing, you go right ahead...

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Shockingly, you misunderstood the post. You do that a lot. I was simply saying that a lot of people don't even consider shooting benchrest SHOOTING (not me, but some people). Although I can see their point. Setting up a rifle in bags and pointing it and touching a 1 oz trigger does not really translate into any other kind of shooting. I have to limit my benchrest shooting or all my other shooting goes to crap. As far as trophies, I know a few guys that love the brass and have won a lot of it. For some reason I am not obsessed with competing in every aspect of my life like some people. Hey, if that is your thing, you go right ahead...

Well its the standard things are judged from. You never see an ad about a gun having “field shooting accuracy” or “we build our rifles to sling shooting accuracy” or “perfectly acceptable for shooting at paper plates” its always benchrest accuracy for the standard. Its where every innovation that has to do with accuracy and precision comes from

 

[urbanrifleman]

Did the orignal poster say he was going to compete? Or shoot benchrest? I keep re reading his post and I saw no indication of either...

 

[BigBlueandGoldie]

Hey, just installed one last night!View attachment 1216953

Dusty, why the nut on this rifle seeing as you have a lathe?

 

[urbanrifleman]

Well its the standard things are judged from. You never see an ad about a gun having “field shooting accuracy” or “we build our rifles to sling shooting accuracy” or “perfectly acceptable for shooting at paper plates” its always benchrest accuracy for the standard. Its where every innovation that has to do with accuracy and precision comes from

Every innovation, huh? Wow.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty, why the nut on this rifle seeing as you have a lathe?

I asked the same thing

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Every innovation, huh? Wow.

Name one that came from the deer woods or prairie dog field

 

[jelenko]

Well said. That is EXACTLY what happens. A guy asks a question, and 20 posts later nothing short of winning the nationals at a bench rest competition will be considered "accuracy". The snobbery is palpable (and that's what it is). I have seen literally HUNDREDS of these threads devolve EXACTLY like that, and so have my friends... It is real thing.

To me, it seems more like the people who compete in benchrest are intuitively responding with what they know and what is important to what they do. I don't feel it's 'snobbery' - if anything more just forgetting that what is critical to their success may be more than is needed in another discipline.

I compete in 'XTC' where a rifle/ammo that shoots even some 1/2 MOA groups - with anything over a 1" group being very rare - is enough to win Nationals. While there is absolutely nothing wrong per se with working on improving my gun/ammo's accuracy, I do know it won't make a difference in my scores.

Further 'away' from the accuracy demands of benchrest would be three gun competition. I haven't competed in 3 gun and don't know anyone who has, but from my understanding of their courses of firing, a 1 MOA gun is fine.

Going back the other way, my perception is there are a lot of readers here that don't participate in formal competition but are motivated to get their rifle/ammo as accurate as possible. Many probably like the detail and care that is involved along with the experimenting. For these shooters, I would think the advice of top level benchrest shooters would be highly valued.