IMR 4227 for 9MM

[shootermcgaven]

Hello all, I am very new to reloading, just getting started for a matter of fact, If I had primers I would actually be able to start, but in the meantime....I am looking for load data for 9MM using IMR 4227 powder, but cannot find anything specific. Questions are: Does anyone have a reputable source I could reference for IMR 4227? Can I use data from the same manufacture of the powder, but different spec, like is IMR 4252 the same as IMR Red? Thanks for the input, happy thanksgiving.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

imr 4277 looks like a powder designed for higher powered calibers like 357,41,44 mags and other hiperformance calibers. It is probably too slow to be useful in a 9mm. When there is little to no data available, it is probably for a good reason. Go over to Brian Enos's forum. They can tell you about every powder suitable for the 9mm.

Frank

 

[Sandstorm]

Please be careful and never substitute other powder load numbers.!!
Use only Mfg load values for your specific application....
Its all I got for you and I do not load pistol rounds at all...Im sure others will come along to help you with said
application as there are many highly experienced shooter on this forum.

 

[jds holler]

I've got pretty extensive data, especially for older powders which 4227 is. I don't find anything for either IMR or Hodgdon 4227 in 9mm.

As a beginning reloader, I'd suggest that you stick with a powder that is solidly listed in many sources to get started. There are a half dozen that can be used for any bullet weight that you may decide on. Go to the Hodgdon on-line site for a start. jd

 

[Tommie]

While it probably could be used, 4227 is slow burning and is much better suited for magnum handgun cartridges. How did you settle on 4227?

 

[SSL]

IMR 4227 is considered a magnum cartridge powder. It is far too slow to give top results in 9mm. It is more at home in the larger, high pressure cartridges. Doing a quick 'Google' I see that the only loads I could find quickly gave very low velocity (700-800 fps) with pretty much full cases. I would strongly recommend you find a more suitable powder. Hodgdon Reloading is a good place to start your search. You will note that even though they make the IMR 4227 it is not listed as a suitable powder for 9mm. As a new reloader, manufacturer's data is your friend.

 

[shootermcgaven]

Thanks everyone, all good advise that has a consistent theme. Looks like I am best suited for using the 4227 in the specific application I can find data for, that is the 45 and 327.

 

[SSL]

Thanks everyone, all good advise that has a consistent theme. Looks like I am best suited for using the 4227 in the specific application I can find data for, that is the 45 and 327.

Also, remember in your search to not mistake the same numbered powder between manufacturers. H4227 is not the same as IMR 4227, as an example. Manufacturer labeling can be confusing because so many manufactures use the same numbers for their own powders, so make sure your data is for the specific powder. Don't mix data or try to extrapolate between powders at this stage of your quest. Stay with published powder/bullet weight data and stay safe.
Good luck and don't be afraid to ask questions.

 

[expiper]

Thanks everyone, all good advise that has a consistent theme. Looks like I am best suited for using the 4227 in the specific application I can find data for, that is the 45 and 327.

that 327 runs best on 100 octane,,,,just because you have a certain powder (4227 for instance) doesnt mean that you can make it work in everthing from a 25 auto. to a 50 s&w,,,,listen to what the manuals tell you and the advice from experiencd shooters...Roger

 

[Tommie]

Thanks everyone, all good advise that has a consistent theme. Looks like I am best suited for using the 4227 in the specific application I can find data for, that is the 45 and 327.

If you’re referring to .45 ACP then 4227 is (again) off the list. As you are just getting started I’d highly recommend you do a bunch of homework before putting any loads together. Understanding operating pressures, expansion ratios, powder burn rates, etc is crucial. Load manuals are your friend but stay away from the load data until you read and truly understand the chapters preceding the load recipes.

 

[powderbrake]

I would suggest you buy a loading manual, I recommend Sierra, as they don't make powder, so they have lots of loads for all the powder manufacturers. Later on pick up Hornady, Lyman and Speer

I also suggest that you try to match the caliber to the typical powder that is used. This is automatically done in the loading manuals. Rifle powder is generally too "slow" for pistol loads. DO NOT try to "force" a powder to fit your caliber.

I recommend you consider Bullseye powder for your 9mm and your 45ACP. It also works well in 38, 40S&W, 45acp and 9mm light and medium loads. (it is not used for the maximum loads in these calibers)
It is a very fast powder, takes very little powder to make a charge, and you must be careful you do not "double charge" a case. There are some more modern powders for the light and medium pistol charges, but I have no experience with them.

I HIGHLY recommend you start with a mild load. DO NOT start with a maximum load.

Also, when discussing a pistol load, list the following:

Caliber
Bullet weight and type (round nose, semi wad cutter, etc.)
Bullet is lead, or jacketed
Primer size and manufacturer, ie, Winchester SP (small pistol)
Powder
Powder weight in grains
Intended use, ie, plinking, target shooting, IDPA, hunting, self defense

With this info on a load, members can make a more informed suggestion.

Welcome to the Accurate shooter website, and to starting in reloading

 

[AJC]

Sent pm...

 

[358WCF]

I dug out an old IMR Powder Co booklet that they used to supply free to gun shops. No date but the address is Plattsburgh, NY so it's likely mid 80s. It says for 9mm Luger with RP case & RP 1 1/2... 115gr JHP 8.8 gr. will give 820fps & with 124FMJ 8.8 will give 790fps. both charges are compressed & VERY low pressure so there will likely be unburned powder & odd ignition results. I would imagine it will go bang & the bullet will leave the barrel, but it's not an optimal powder in any circumstance for 9mm.

We were all new at this once so ask questions. Read reloading manuals. These are still available in print. Best plan is to find a reloader local to you who can show you. Did I mention get some reloading manuals? IMR 4227 is no longer the same as H4227, let alone any other powder. Do not extrapolate stuff like this. Logic is not always logical with internal ballistics.

Scabbed from somewhere on the internet, the result of a double charge.

 

[std7mag]

Looking at Hodgdons annual manual, 4227 is not listed for any of the 45 caliber cartridges listed.
327 is listed, but only with the 100gr Hornady XTP.

For 9mm, 45ACP, look more towards powders like Ramshot Silhouette, Alliant Unique, or Win 231.
These powders, and more, can be used in both cartridges with good velocity, accuracy, and within safe pressures.

Get manuals!
And read the entire manual! Not just to pick out a load for your specific cartridge.
They have a wealth of information!

 

[shootermcgaven]

If you’re referring to .45 ACP then 4227 is (again) off the list. As you are just getting started I’d highly recommend you do a bunch of homework before putting any loads together. Understanding operating pressures, expansion ratios, powder burn rates, etc is crucial. Load manuals are your friend but stay away from the load data until you read and truly understand the chapters preceding the load recipes.

I have quickly learned that the art of this science is indeed in the knowledge of what you are doing. I have plan on taking your advice to heart and educating myself first. I am also going to look for a local class, I do not personally know anyone that loads. thanks.

 

[shootermcgaven]

I dug out an old IMR Powder Co booklet that they used to supply free to gun shops. No date but the address is Plattsburgh, NY so it's likely mid 80s. It says for 9mm Luger with RP case & RP 1 1/2... 115gr JHP 8.8 gr. will give 820fps & with 124FMJ 8.8 will give 790fps. both charges are compressed & VERY low pressure so there will likely be unburned powder & odd ignition results. I would imagine it will go bang & the bullet will leave the barrel, but it's not an optimal powder in any circumstance for 9mm.

We were all new at this once so ask questions. Read reloading manuals. These are still available in print. Best plan is to find a reloader local to you who can show you. Did I mention get some reloading manuals? IMR 4227 is no longer the same as H4227, let alone any other powder. Do not extrapolate stuff like this. Logic is not always logical with internal ballistics.

Scabbed from somewhere on the internet, the result of a double charge.

Great information, thank you. I plan on educating myself, like Mark Twain said "better safe 100 time than dead once.

 

[shootermcgaven]

I would suggest you buy a loading manual, I recommend Sierra, as they don't make powder, so they have lots of loads for all the powder manufacturers. Later on pick up Hornady, Lyman and Speer

I also suggest that you try to match the caliber to the typical powder that is used. This is automatically done in the loading manuals. Rifle powder is generally too "slow" for pistol loads. DO NOT try to "force" a powder to fit your caliber.

I recommend you consider Bullseye powder for your 9mm and your 45ACP. It also works well in 38, 40S&W, 45acp and 9mm light and medium loads. (it is not used for the maximum loads in these calibers)
It is a very fast powder, takes very little powder to make a charge, and you must be careful you do not "double charge" a case. There are some more modern powders for the light and medium pistol charges, but I have no experience with them.

I HIGHLY recommend you start with a mild load. DO NOT start with a maximum load.

Also, when discussing a pistol load, list the following:

Caliber
Bullet weight and type (round nose, semi wad cutter, etc.)
Bullet is lead, or jacketed
Primer size and manufacturer, ie, Winchester SP (small pistol)
Powder
Powder weight in grains
Intended use, ie, plinking, target shooting, IDPA, hunting, self defense

With this info on a load, members can make a more informed suggestion.

Welcome to the Accurate shooter website, and to starting in reloading

great info, thanks.

 

[Depart123]

...,just because you have a certain powder (4227 for instance) doesnt mean that you can make it work in everthing from a 25 auto. to a 50 s&w...

Unless it is Unique...then it actually will work in just about anything.

 

[AJC]

Unless it is Unique...then it actually will work in just about anything.

The interesting thing with 4227 is it works in some rifle cartridges like 2400 and unique. It's just to slow for most modern handguns.

 

[Rodney]

A powder that I like is CFE pistol from hodgdon. It's good for 9mm and 45ACP. Plus it's bulky enough that a double charge will be very noticeable. I'm new to handgun reloading myself and took measures to prevent errors. Handgun pressures can get out of hand with just a couple tenths of a grain change or seating depth changes. Best of luck to you, just follow the loading manuals to the tee, seating depth also.