A question about meplat trimming and bullet pointing...

[Rational Redneck]

I have never used a meplat trimmer nor bullet pointer. But from what I read/YouTube one has to have a cleanly cut meplat to do the job of pointing bullets. I’m stuck using Amax that lose the tip on occasion from heat. I can use pliers to pull the tip out. That leaves a clean 85/1000 hole. My question for this post is that hole too large to draw the copper over on itself and close/point the hole with any of the tipping/pointing tools out there or is it possible? Anyone ever try this? And if so, which one?

Thanks

 

[Sniper338]

Interesting thought process there. Most will say pointing is a waste of time effort and money.

 

[1shot]

If you are shooting 600 and in, the benefits are so small it isn't worth your time. However, if you shoot 1K and beyond and done correctly, trimming/pointing will reduce the variation of the bullets thus lowering the amount of vertical dispersion. Some bullets only a little (1-3%) others will see a much larger improvement. (3-7%).
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[Big Mc]

I have never used a meplat trimmer nor bullet pointer. But from what I read/YouTube one has to have a cleanly cut meplat to do the job of pointing bullets. I’m stuck using Amax that lose the tip on occasion from heat. I can use pliers to pull the tip out. That leaves a clean 85/1000 hole. My question for this post is that hole too large to draw the copper over on itself and close/point the hole with any of the tipping/pointing tools out there or is it possible? Anyone ever try this? And if so, which one?

Thanks

Not a game changer. Spend your time on money on more important projects. Just my two cents Tommy Mc

 

[Mikemci]

The base of the bullet is what controls accuracy.

 

[moondog]

If you are shooting 600 and in, the benefits are so small it isn't worth your time. However, if you shoot 1K and beyond and done correctly, trimming/pointing will reduce the variation of the bullets thus lowering the amount of vertical dispersion. Some bullets only a little (1-3%) others will see a much larger improvement. (3-7%).
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

I will mirror Lloyds results and add a few more yards. I have the tools to do 6, 6.5, 7, 30, and 338. I haven't seen a benefit at 800 yards and in. For me, past 800 yards I definitely see results. The further you stretch it, the more it shows. Not saying a better shooter wouldn't see it at 800 and in, just not me. I will note that you can make it worse if not done correctly. Also, the newer Sierras with the factory pointing are pretty good out of the box.

 

[Rational Redneck]

Thanks for your replies. I really like this site. What I was after is could it be done after removing the plastic tips on purpose, because they can be problematic. Ha, I am pretty stubborn like that, fixing something that isn’t quite broke. I just had a couple of boxes of a particular weight of that in the HPBT version that I’m literally shooting dots with, and I don’t normally shoot those, hell I never thought I could and suddenly everywhere is out of them. Seeing that the shelves could be bare for a while I figured I would ask after I picked up a few boxes of Amax because they (Amax/HPBT) are the same profile. The only reason I ask is at a previous match, shooting a much lighter and much faster Amax I did see a couple of them fail to where it was obvious it wasn’t me, it was almost like it started to tumble mid way and hook a different trajectory. It was very wild.

 

[skiutah02]

I say everyone shouldn't point as that helps me keep my advantage. I have tested and retested trimming and pointing many, many times and with several calibers and bullets. There's an advantage even at 600 if done correctly.

A recent national champion shrank his 1000yd vertical by half using my trimmed and tipped bullets vs. his method. So, no, no need for you to trim/tip,

 

[skiutah02]

Thanks for your replies. I really like this site. What I was after is could it be done after removing the plastic tips on purpose, because they can be problematic. Ha, I am pretty stubborn like that, fixing something that isn’t quite broke. I just had a couple of boxes of a particular weight of that in the HPBT version that I’m literally shooting dots with, and I don’t normally shoot those, hell I never thought I could and suddenly everywhere is out of them. Seeing that the shelves could be bare for a while I figured I would ask after I picked up a few boxes of Amax because they (Amax/HPBT) are the same profile. The only reason I ask is at a previous match, shooting a much lighter and much faster Amax I did see a couple of them fail to where it was obvious it wasn’t me, it was almost like it started to tumble mid way and hook a different trajectory. It was very wild.

An 0.085 opening is pretty big. You could definitely close it up by tipping, but not sure the integrity of the bullet will be maintained. Never tried it personally.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Thanks for your replies. I really like this site. What I was after is could it be done after removing the plastic tips on purpose, because they can be problematic. Ha, I am pretty stubborn like that, fixing something that isn’t quite broke. I just had a couple of boxes of a particular weight of that in the HPBT version that I’m literally shooting dots with, and I don’t normally shoot those, hell I never thought I could and suddenly everywhere is out of them. Seeing that the shelves could be bare for a while I figured I would ask after I picked up a few boxes of Amax because they (Amax/HPBT) are the same profile. The only reason I ask is at a previous match, shooting a much lighter and much faster Amax I did see a couple of them fail to where it was obvious it wasn’t me, it was almost like it started to tumble mid way and hook a different trajectory. It was very wild.

It seems to me things get kinda complicated by removing the plastic tips and pointing them. Doing so would changes the profile of the bullet significantly to where the BC certainly won't be the same as if you left the plastic tips in. And I would think the balance of the bullet might change to where it might become more unbalance way down range where you might not expect it to. . .??? Certainly, I feel that kind of modification to the bullet won't keep it from working at all, just nothing like the original as it was engineered. Of course, you can always experiment and take detailed notes recording just what effects, if any, that modification actually has on their performance. Then report back.

 

[dcali]

Without getting into the ins and outs of pointing, what you’re talking about doing is not going to result in a very good BC. The nose will be too blunt regardless of how much you can close the tip up.

I’d be interested in what happens if you try though.

 

[Jet]

In my experience, trimming and pointing isn't worth the effort for the minimal added BC (if any). I do it in an attempt to maximize consistency.

Don't believe I would attempt to trim/point A max bullets. Sorting them should be done to them though. I've tested trimming and pointing with numerous 6mm bullets and have found it can help some and hurt others. Before venturing down this road, recommend you learn how to tune and keep in tune your rifle. Once that is learned, trimming and pointing could be added as a final step in load development.

Good Shooting

Rich

 

[Rational Redneck]

I ain’t skeered! Lol. But I’m in no hurry either, after all it is a hypothetical idea drawn from an observation of a projectile under different strains and variables. I appreciate all of the input that lets me think out loud, and without ridicule. In my imagination I could already see the blunted point that damoncali describes as I don’t think you can stretch copper, it would crimp maybe .........hmm. Nah.
Hopefully at the slower speed that these heavies fly at it won’t disappoint. Me and my pocketbook have really enjoyed the performance of Amax at shorter ranges for years. The HPBT’s while they lasted upped my LR score a few digits. Being pretty green at the long range game and finding out what works, and doesn’t, is all part of the challenge I suppose. I plan to keep on throwing cheaper ammunition at the targets (that makes it there that is) while I learn the bigger picture of the environments effect on the range and, but most importantly the ranges effect on my humility. I’m enjoying every bit of it! Thanks!

 

[mchees1]

I have never used a meplat trimmer nor bullet pointer. But from what I read/YouTube one has to have a cleanly cut meplat to do the job of pointing bullets. I’m stuck using Amax that lose the tip on occasion from heat. I can use pliers to pull the tip out. That leaves a clean 85/1000 hole. My question for this post is that hole too large to draw the copper over on itself and close/point the hole with any of the tipping/pointing tools out there or is it possible? Anyone ever try this? And if so, which one?

Thanks

Just started reading Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Volume II by Bryan Litz. He has a whole chapter on bullet trimming and pointing. This is at the end of the chapter and the final section on recommendations: "The quickest and most effective way to improve your bullets is with pointing alone. Pointing is very effective at uniforming the BC's, as well as increasing them". The second recommendation is "For enhanced uniformity, you can sort your bullets by length, and point them in batches, adjusting the die for each set of lengths to insure the most consistent point and the most uniform BC.".
This is fact based and fire tested results in a very scientific method. Thousands of rounds in many calibers prove this is the best way to do it.

 

[1shot]

Just started reading Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Volume II by Bryan Litz. He has a whole chapter on bullet trimming and pointing. This is at the end of the chapter and the final section on recommendations: "The quickest and most effective way to improve your bullets is with pointing alone. Pointing is very effective at uniforming the BC's, as well as increasing them". The second recommendation is "For enhanced uniformity, you can sort your bullets by length, and point them in batches, adjusting the die for each set of lengths to insure the most consistent point and the most uniform BC.".
This is fact based and fire tested results in a very scientific method. Thousands of rounds in many calibers prove this is the best way to do it.

The only thing I do differently, and this holds especially true for the latest wave of long/heavy for caliber bullets, is I find the shortest bullet in a batch, and trim to that length. Not necessarily THE shortest, but the shortest group in a batch. You will always have a few outliers that I use as foulers.
I know through testing that this method works for me, YMMV

Lloyd

 

[DocBII]

I have never used a meplat trimmer nor bullet pointer. But from what I read/YouTube one has to have a cleanly cut meplat to do the job of pointing bullets. I’m stuck using Amax that lose the tip on occasion from heat. I can use pliers to pull the tip out. That leaves a clean 85/1000 hole. My question for this post is that hole too large to draw the copper over on itself and close/point the hole with any of the tipping/pointing tools out there or is it possible? Anyone ever try this? And if so, which one?

Thanks

RR,

I bought a lot of 180 30 caliber Lapuas for the 30-06 which had an 0.080" meplat and a very short ogive radius. Overall length was good, so I didn't trim them, but pointing them with any of the pointers from a Whidden tool didn't really close the tip well. Ended up using them as is in a 300 WM for short range (under 800 yds.) shooting. They would shed too much velocity for their intended use in either the 30-06 or 300 WM.

HTH,
DocBII