Scope Leveling

[Baer45]

I hate to admit I have every tool for leveling and have used hm all with varying degrees of satisfaction. I have settled on lining up my scope based on what looks right to me and then lock it down....if it is off I will find out soon enough and adjust by eye....got to shoot sometime...

 

[Pinetreebbs]

I've tried many of the previously listed tools/methods, levels attached to the flat bottom of the scope works well, but for anything going onto a Picatinny rail, I really like the Scope Jack from Fix-It Sticks folks.

 

[KY_Windage]

The level question really needs to be narrowed to what you want.

If you're a dialer, you want plumb elevation adjustment.
If you reticle hold over for elevation & wind, you want a plumb reticle.

Whether I dial or hold over, I want my POI to not shift left or right no matter what range I shoot at, 50 yards or 1,000.

It makes no difference whether you dial up 7 moa or hold over 7 moa (or 2 mils, whatever) -- if your reticle is out of alignment with your bore you will hit left or right (depending on which way it is out of alignment) the same amount in either case.

If you are never going to shoot past 300 yards I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you are terribly out of alignment it doesn't even start to show up until you dial up 10 moa or more. The gadgets will get you pretty close, I just want it perfect for LR shooting. Takes me 20 - 30 minutes every time I mount a scope, but then I never have to worry about it again.

When this level is folded out I can be looking thru the scope with my right eye and I only have to glance up with my left eye to check the bubble. I don't think most people realize how much (without a level) they cant their rifle, or how much the cant will throw your POI off.

 

[cptjack]

been in the trades 40 plus year. nickname for the level is LIAR,,who to say the level is level ,,seem many so called mechanics don't know how to use a level or check a level,,just because the bubble is between 2 lines does not make the surface level. it has to be perfectly between the lines. I dont use a level I center the vertical crosshair to the center of the bolt

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I've tried many of the previously listed tools/methods, levels attached to the flat bottom of the scope works well, but for anything going onto a Picatinny rail, I really like the Scope Jack from Fix-It Sticks folks.

That’s pretty Slick!

 

[mikecr]

It makes no difference whether you dial up 7 moa or hold over 7 moa (or 2 mils, whatever) -- if your reticle is out of alignment with your bore you will hit left or right (depending on which way it is out of alignment) the same amount in either case.

If you're referring to center of bore w/resp to aimpoint, then "out of alignment" can be completely independent of level. For example, the function of windage adjustment IS misalignment.
As far as gun cant, any level anywhere on the gun will show this. But that doesn't tell you if the elevation adjustment is turned in the scope rings. Right?
The gun can be level, with everything in vertical alignment with the bore(including scope centerline), but if the scope's aimpoint adjustment is not true to this then aimpoint adjustments will introduce misalignment(aiming cant).

Also, dialing-vs-holdover can be different enough that you might not be able to have both plumb at the same time. Some scope manufacturers have a pretty ugly tolerance on reticle trueness. Some taking reticle level to scope body/turrets instead of mechanical elevation travel, because it's easier, and we're dumb enough to believe that matters anyway. The better scope makers still have tolerances, and even while they made sure the aimpoint is true to elevation travel, they're likely plagued with complaints about reticles less plumb to friggin turret caps.. Eventually it's oh well, keep the tactical mob happy, make bigger bucks!
If you think this is irrational consider this; NF NXS, bestothebestothebestsir, MOA adjustments, do not adjust in MOA.. Leupold Mk4, MOA adjustments, adjust in EXACTLY MOA.
Test everything about the scopes you hold in your hand.

The flip down level you pictured looks obscured by the focus knob from shooting position.
Be honest, can you see level from it while squeezing off the shot?
I hunt groundhogs in NE Pennsylvania**. There seems no such thing as level there, and hitting of hogs beyond 500yds gets rare pretty quick until you seriously mind your level.
Not a go-through-the-motions-toy level, but real, very tested level.

**Not in 2020. Please let this year just end. AMEN**

 

[KY_Windage]

Mike, you are worrying about a bunch of things (mostly scope defects) that most of us do not have to worry about, because these days even $200 scopes usually track well. Those of us buying quality scopes certainly do not have to worry about whether out "elevation adjustment is turned in the scope rings." All you need to do is get your reticle pointed at the exact center of your bore at 50 or 100 yards and it will put the bullet precisely plumb above that POI when you crank up 30 moa or more and shoot at 1,000 yards. No BS, no gadgets to buy.

Regarding my level, look at what I said: "When this level is folded out I can be looking thru the scope with my right eye and I only have to glance up with my left eye to check the bubble."

My right eye is centered in the scope and without moving my head .001", I can just glance up with my left eye and see my entire bubble housing. The parallax knob is never in the way on any model NF. I will try to snap a photo of what it looks like from the vantage point of my left eye when my right eye is in the scope, but trust me, the knob is not in the way at all. And of course, a left-hander can flip it 180 and have it on the opposite side.

Like you say, if I am shooting at LR I am constantly checking that bubble. They are made by Flatline Ops. They are spendy but worth the extra money to me. I have used several other brands. They all work fine (well, until they leak or break), but I find this one more convenient to install, adjust and use. Not an advertisement, it is the nearly free "Plumber's Tall Target Test" I am trying to get people to try. No need to discuss hypothetical shortcomings -- just try it. You will never mount a scope without using it again.

 

[mikecr]

As long as your Flatline Ops is the version that mounts to the scope itself(not rings or rail), and you can see it at shooting position, then it's perfect. That's exactly what I'm advocating for.

Otherwise, you could put levels on every other system component,, the rest, stock, action, rail, rings, scope turrets/caps/bottom, ALL AT ONCE, and still be a mile from plumb with elevation changes (if the scope is turned from plumb).
What really matters is how that scope is turned before tightening it down, and having direct indication of it's condition during each shot. Of course it needs to be turned to plumb w/regard to elevation, and your Flatline, and my ScopLevel, will show any cant from there.

 

[K22]

I clamp the rifle in a padded vice and level it with a small machinist level. Finding a flat reference spot on some rifles can be an issue especially the Browning's so I use the flat part of the scope ring only when necessary.

I then place the scope in the rings and level it with the small machinist level. I do a visual looking through the objective end of the scope to verify the cross hairs are level.

Then using a "X" tightening procedure, I tighten the ring screws with the level remaining on the scope to assure the tightening sequence does not change the level position.

Seems to work well enough but then again I only shoot out to about 300 yards.

 

[moondog]

I put the rifle in a vice and get the action level. I hang a plumb bob against a wall, shine a lite through the ocular. It will project the reticle on the wall. Not so useful if it's just a dot.

 

[pingunit]

I put the rifle in a vice and get the action level. I hang a plumb bob against a wall, shine a lite through the ocular. It will project the reticle on the wall. Not so useful if it's just a dot.

This^^^!!! Exactly what I do! Works great and you can run the reticle up and down to see how well it tracks and to make sure you're aligned - all in the comfort of your home.

 

[KY_Windage]

I put the rifle in a vice and get the action level. I hang a plumb bob against a wall, shine a lite through the ocular. It will project the reticle on the wall. Not so useful if it's just a dot.

You can have the rifle dead-level, and get the reticle dead-level, but still have the reticle slightly off from pointing at the center of the bore (because of small errors or tolerances in the drilling of the base screws, in the bases themselves, in the rings, etc. If that happens you will be off to one side as you increase range. It probably won't be much off, and it does not matter anyway if you aren't going to shoot past 300 yards.

You will also be off if you get to the range and find that you have to crank the windage knob over 15 moa to get your reticle onto your POI at 100 yards. (Happens all the time.)

I don't get the reluctance to staple up 3 pages of dots while using a weighted string to make sure the dots are exactly plumb, and then firing a few shots and maybe having to loosen and re-tighten your ring screws a couple of times. Then you know you got it exactly right, without wasting time playing with levels and flashlights in the basement. Just sayin'.

 

[moondog]

You can have the rifle dead-level, and get the reticle dead-level, but still have the reticle slightly off from pointing at the center of the bore (because of small errors or tolerances in the drilling of the base screws, in the bases themselves, in the rings, etc. If that happens you will be off to one side as you increase range. It probably won't be much off, and it does not matter anyway if you aren't going to shoot past 300 yards.

You will also be off if you get to the range and find that you have to crank the windage knob over 15 moa to get your reticle onto your POI at 100 yards. (Happens all the time.)

I don't get the reluctance to staple up 3 pages of dots while using a weighted string to make sure the dots are exactly plumb, and then firing a few shots and maybe having to loosen and re-tighten your ring screws a couple of times. Then you know you got it exactly right, without wasting time playing with levels and flashlights in the basement. Just sayin'.

Huh?
I rarely if ever shoot inside 300. More often than not, 500 to 1050.

 

[bobm]

I made this tool in the early 70's, copied from something I saw in a shooting catalog. Uses bolt race bottom for squaring. Line up vertical crosshair with scribe line on tool. Works best when magnification is set to lowest power. It was quite useful on scopes of that era.

 

[dcali]

I just eyeball it, and then confirm at the range if it's a rifle for which it matters. This is counter to conventional wisdom, but for most rifles under most conditions, it doesn't matter - it's more important to me that the reticle look square from behind the rifle than that the turrets are perfectly aligned. Any perceived cant is distracting, and I don't need a tool to remove that perception - I just look.

 

[KY_Windage]

Huh?
I rarely if ever shoot inside 300. More often than not, 500 to 1050.

Then reticle alignment matters a lot. With "gadgets in the living room," maybe you're spot on and maybe you're off. I want to know for certain. The only effective way to do that is by shooting in a controlled test.

So simple to do.

 

[KY_Windage]

I dont use a level I center the vertical crosshair to the center of the bolt

I use a level after I know my scope is on straight, not during the mounting process. Like you, I ry to make sure the vert. crosshair is pointing at the bore, by eyeballing. Then I do the Tall Target Test to see if I got it right or not. This time (.30-06 shooting cast lead bullets for silhouettes) I got lucky and got it spot on the first try.

Ignore the holes in the middle of the Tall Target. After I got the scope sighted in at 100 yards I used a plumb-bob to make sure my bullseyes were exactly plumb, then fired two shots at the bottom right bullseye. Then I cranked the E turret up 27 MOA and fired two more shots at the same bullseye.

Because those last two shots hit the bullseye at upper right, exactly plumb above the lower bullseye, I know my scope is on straight

Now I can sleep well at night.

 

[skeeljc]

I have this one. Works well. Registers off barrel and optic.

https://www.realavid.com/product/level-right-pro/

 

[JEFFPPC]

Another simple task many make difficult. A plum bob. Align crosshairs. Verify as KY Windage showed you above.

 

[Trevor60]

I use this method for my scopes final leveling starts at 3:21
getting my rifle squared away I use 3ft level

With my bipod attached I put the rifle in the rear bag and get it parallell to the ground. i put the level on the bottom half of the scope rings the level is standing up and make minor adjustments to the rifle referencing the top bubble to get it square.
One the rifle is square i us a flat bar (like in the video) on the bottom of my scope.
Tighten the rings in a crossing pattern
A barrel vise is faster getting the rifle square and scope level, but takes more time to set up the vise

Cheers
Trevor