Hey AR Guys Part 2.....

[INTJ]

"I need to be able to by inexpensive ammo and have it shoot ok." - Good luck with that

I have a late 90's Colt AR15 (CAR version) with the stock Colt 24" 1:9 twist SS barrel. When I shoot the garbage ammo you can buy from Gander or Cabella's in it, I get 3"-4" 5-shot groups at 200 yds. But when I shoot, many times fired random cases, BR4 primers, Varget and 50 gr V-Max bullets, it shoots 0.5 moa 5-shot groups at 200 yds.

3-4" five-shot groups at 200 yds meet my stated standards of "okay" for a defense carbine. That is sub-moa with the ammo it likes and 2 MOA with cheap ammo.

 

[Hohn]

"I need to be able to by inexpensive ammo and have it shoot ok." - Good luck with that

I have a late 90's Colt AR15 (CAR version) with the stock Colt 24" 1:9 twist SS barrel. When I shoot the garbage ammo you can buy from Gander or Cabella's in it, I get 3"-4" 5-shot groups at 200 yds. But when I shoot, many times fired random cases, BR4 primers, Varget and 50 gr V-Max bullets, it shoots 0.5 moa 5-shot groups at 200 yds.

This is what I'd expect for a quality AR. 1.5-2 moa with cheap stuff it likes, well under with handloads.

Most 55gr I shoot will hold 1.5" at 100y, but I generally shoot GECO for 55gr stuff. xm193 type stuff can be anywhere from as good to atrocious depending who made it.

There is a considerable range of accuracy within "cheap ammo" for any given barrel. Even with a good quality one, some cheap ammo just won't go under 2" regardless. My rifle will hold 2.5" with steel case Brown Bear, but switch to PMC or PPU cheap stuff and it's all over the place-- 3" or more.

Cheap ammo varies so much that it's all but impossible to find a barrel that will shoot ALL cheap ammo reasonably well. I'd never want to judge the barrel or shooter based on how it runs PMC though.

I've yet to see any combination of ammo and rifle that couldn't hold 4" in an AR though with a reasonable shooter. But that' mostly because me and my friends are all snobs that buy decent barrels . (which, for an AR can be had <$200 in many cases).

 

[dcali]

Honestly, this is not atypical for a rack grade AR and factory ammo. Forget about FMJ or anything of that sort- it won't shoot in any rifle. If you use something with match grade HPBT bullets, as you've seen, you get much better results. I don't even know if it exists in factory ammo, but if you can find something that uses 50-55 grain match type HPBT or flat base ammo, that's your best bet. The lighter bullets are likely to shoot better.

 

[Hohn]

Honestly, this is not atypical for a rack grade AR and factory ammo. Forget about FMJ or anything of that sort- it won't shoot in any rifle. If you use something with match grade HPBT bullets, as you've seen, you get much better results. I don't even know if it exists in factory ammo, but if you can find something that uses 50-55 grain match type HPBT or flat base ammo, that's your best bet. The lighter bullets are likely to shoot better.

There used to be a 50-gr VMAX load from American Eagle that was sold in the little black 20rd AE boxes that was known to be lights-out accurate from many ARs. Like sub MOA even in a massive NATO chamber jumping a mile from the mag.

But federal replaced the vmax with a cheaper bullet and it's not even close to the legendary performance of that old AE 50gr load. A handloader should have little difficulty matching or exceeding that AE load's performance. It was a killer package though-- accurate, gave you LC brass, and priced around 30c/ea sometimes.

 

[wkdickinson]

This is what I'd expect for a quality AR. 1.5-2 moa with cheap stuff it likes, well under with handloads.

Most 55gr I shoot will hold 1.5" at 100y, but I generally shoot GECO for 55gr stuff. xm193 type stuff can be anywhere from as good to atrocious depending who made it.

There is a considerable range of accuracy within "cheap ammo" for any given barrel. Even with a good quality one, some cheap ammo just won't go under 2" regardless. My rifle will hold 2.5" with steel case Brown Bear, but switch to PMC or PPU cheap stuff and it's all over the place-- 3" or more.

Cheap ammo varies so much that it's all but impossible to find a barrel that will shoot ALL cheap ammo reasonably well. I'd never want to judge the barrel or shooter based on how it runs PMC though.

I've yet to see any combination of ammo and rifle that couldn't hold 4" in an AR though with a reasonable shooter. But that' mostly because me and my friends are all snobs that buy decent barrels . (which, for an AR can be had <$200 in many cases).

I can shoot that same "cheap ammo from my AR "match rifle" that has a 26" 1:7.7 Krieger and get 1 moa, 5-shot groups at 200 yds. Maybe the better barrel, but who knows.

 

[Hohn]

I can shoot that same "cheap ammo from my AR "match rifle" that has a 26" 1:7.7 Krieger and get 1 moa, 5-shot groups at 200 yds. Maybe the better barrel, but who knows.

Put a Kreiger in your AR and it’s likely to do nearly as well.

 

[Fast14riot]

Maybe give Jack at Loader Monkey a call and see what a custom load would cost.

 

[dexter]

My factory ammo experience is somewhat limited, however I do have a friend that only shoots factory ammo in ARs, so I shot a few of his Fiocchi 50gr V MAX ammo. It shot VERY close to my handloaded ammo. Surprising! Maybe this lighter load will shoot well for you also despite the faster twist that's most likely on your AR.

 

[spaniel]

If you insist on shooting cheap factory ammo, this is par for the course. No use complaining. Or continue to try varied ammo. Your BR guns shoot so well because you work with them, in this case, you are refusing to do this.

I worked up a 55gr VMAX load for my first 16" AR. Turns out, this load shoots lights out in every single 16" or greater AR I've ever tried it in. So I load it on a progressive Hornady press, MIXED BRASS, and get .5-.75 MOA from most guns. Never seen over MOA. MIXED BRASS. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't shot >4000 rounds from more than a dozen rifles.

Buddy built a "precision" AR for his wife, she was ticked, it shot like crap, various factory ammo. I gave her a mag of my ammo, it went from 3 MOA to .75 MOA.

IMHO you can't blame a barrel if you haven't given it the option of load development. I've seen plenty of accurate barrels that only showed it after load development. Shopping for a factory ammo accurate barrel is a lot more expensive IMHO than the reverse option...

 

[CT10ring]

This is accurate factory ammo. Not sure if still available.
Good brass, too. you could give empties to your reloader pals.
Anything from Black Hills is pretty good too.

 

[CT10ring]

I believe you are mistaken replace the word "barrel" with "shooter".

there you go.

 

[Bamban]

I've shot these in matches, they are every bit as good as the BH and my handloads. A friend use them with great success on whitetails and hogs.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-5...-otm-lr-mod-1-razorcore-imi-ammo-made-israe-0

 

[INTJ]

there you go.

NOT!!!

 

[69mach]

I think maybe the fact that some people have a hard time shooting an ar rifle is overlooked. They are worlds away from a precision bolt Gun in how they are shot. I know some darn fine shots that do well with a bolt gun but can’t shoot an ar for crap. Also in my experience some ar rifles are just finicky. I’ve gotten to where my ARs are compass lake or craddock assembled guns. Not just everyone can throw together a half minute ar.

 

[CT10ring]

I think maybe the fact that some people have a hard time shooting an ar rifle is overlooked. They are worlds away from a precision bolt Gun in how they are shot. I know some darn fine shots that do well with a bolt gun but can’t shoot an ar for crap. Also in my experience some ar rifles are just finicky. I’ve gotten to where my ARs are compass lake or craddock assembled guns. Not just everyone can throw together a half minute ar.

Separate the wheat from the chaff with an AR. Then a pistol. Good shot w a BR rifle? Grab a pistol. Accurate shooting is relative. Kinda fun to evolve.

 

[Evan]

Separate the wheat from the chaff with an AR. Then a pistol. Good shot w a BR rifle? Grab a pistol. Accurate shooting is relative. Kinda fun to evolve.

Yeah, no light hold or free recoil with an AR. Every one I've shot responded well to strong physical control. Pistols too. Grip as tight as you can without introducing tremors!

 

[INTJ]

Separate the wheat from the chaff with an AR. Then a pistol. Good shot w a BR rifle? Grab a pistol. Accurate shooting is relative. Kinda fun to evolve.

Shooting well isn't a hard skill to develop. My personal assumption is that almost everyone on Accurate Shooter knows how to shoot well and are here to learn and share. I assume we all want to help each other become even better shooters, but this isn't the first rodeo for most of us. If you could care less about my shooting experience/skill, thoughts on shooting, and results, then skip down to the section with the bolded title where I give the latest on my new barrel.

Like many here I have been shooting since age 6. I am ten times that age today. The key in any shooting position is to not pull the trigger until the sights are aligned properly. That applies whether its a moving elk, a BR target, a standing deer, or flushing pheasant. Those are four different subsets of shooting skills but the end goal is the same. The sights must be aligned properly. In order to get proper sight alignment we need consistency in hold and stability in our shooting position....and the shotgun needs to fit well...........

Stability and consistency is easiest to get at the bench and is why a stable bench rest results in the most precision. It's why the smallest groups come from BR, and it is usually the best place to evaluate a rifle and load's accuracy. I had my very low experience son-in-law shooting sub moa from the bench with both a .270 and a .375 H&H in ONE range session. When my youngest daughter was a young teen, I had her shooting a scoped Mini-14 as well as I, which was 2" 5-shot groups at 100 yds.

Next easiest position is prone from rests, then prone with a sling, then seated, kneeling, and finally standing offhand. Each shooting position requires a different approach and takes a little practice to become competent in it. To master any shooting position, even the bench, takes a LOT of time. However, there is also a LOT of skill transfer between the various positions. Like many here I have personally shot them all.

Each gun also requires a different approach though again, there is a LOT of skill overlap whether it is a small handgun for concealed carry, a big handgun, a shotgun, a bolt action, a lever action, a pump action, a DG double rifle, or even a pesky AR. Well, the DR was pesky too............

So how well do I shoot other guns and from other positions?

I had not shot a handgun in six years. A couple days ago I shot both my LC-9 carry guns and my XD-45. Standing unsupported, seven shots from one LC-9 went into a 3" group at 12 yds, center mass. The other LC-9 made a 5" group. I did 3.75" with 10 shots from the XD-45. I sot them in that order. I might be able to tighten that up, but it occurs to me that accuracy level more than meets to purpose for these guns. I did set aside the ammo for the 3" LC9 and I'll try a different ammo in the 5" LC9.

Except for the 435 yd cross canyon shot where I did have to sit down and get stable, all my shots on deer and elk in Oregon have been offhand at ranges between 50 and 100 yds. Several of those animals were moving (mature Blacktail bucks don't stand around for very long when you are close). Of course, ALL the pheasants I have shot have been moving.................

I finally got my 450 NE double rifle tuned to where I could get 2" 4-shots groups at 50 yds. Tuning one of those is harder than tuning a BR rifle because you basically have to get two single shot rifles to shoot the same load to the same POI at 50 yds with the same ammo, open sights, and 65 ft lbs of recoil. I sold it so I could buy my lathe. And no, I didn't shoot it free recoil. Nor did I shoot the 33-28 Nosler I just chambered free recoil.

Usually, when it has been a while, I shoot 8" groups at 100 yds from standing offhand. In a couple range sessions I usually have refined that to about 4" groups. Whether it's an iron sighted Garand or a scoped rifle doesn't seem to make much difference. I think the true masters at standing offhand shoot more in the 2 MOA range, but I am not sure. I have never tried to develop more than 4 MOA offhand accuracy because that allows me clean snap shots on deer at the distance where I see them 95% of the time. Even so, I still look for a field rest whenever I can find one--a tree, a log, a rock, etc.

Concerning BR, I shoot NBRSA LR BR at 600 and 1000 yds. I sometimes do well and sometimes not. I have placed higher than national champions and then placed lower to less experienced competitors. Each match I learn something new. One match I'll have the wind figured and dialed in, the next I won't and I'll wonder if I ever did have it figured out. I have one rifle ready to compete this year, a 300 WSM Light Gun. It shoots .25 to .3 MOA at 200 yds. I am still working on my second gun, a 6 BRA. It has yet to shoot better than a 1/2" 5-shot group at 200 yds and it needs to average 3/8" or better. (The 6mms need to shoot tighter at close range than the 300s.) I got the chamber really nice on this 6 BRA barrel, but so far it isn't shooting as well as my last 6 BRA barrel where I screwed up and cut the chamber oversize.

I have had a few ARs. Three were 20" A2 match rifles and all shot sub-moa. The best shooting one of all was a Ruger SR-762. Sub 3/4" groups, 2600 fps, 20 FPS ES with Fed GM 168s. That equals a 800 yd capable rifle.

I shot two Highpower matches with one of those match ARs several years ago during my second year of 1000 yd BR. First was a reduced course at 200, the second was a full 600 yd course of fire. Both times I scored mid-pack, beating half of those knuckleheads who said I'd finish dead last. I did not stick with Highpower. LR BR is more interesting to me and I enjoy my fellow BR competitors.

This current carbine is the worst AR I have had accuracy wise, which isn't unexpected. It needs to be held when shooting from a bench like my grown up bolt guns need to be held, but for a different reason. The bolt guns will launch themselves out of the rest if I don't hold down the fore end. Also, they hurt if not firmly held. Now that is still an accurate way to shoot. I have lots of 1/2" 100 yd groups from rifles that generate 50+ ft lbs recoil while using a "hard hold."

The AR carbine needs to be held down because it has all this action movement when it fires. It doesn't need to be held hard, but if I am holding the big bolt guns at a 5, then the AR likes to be held at a 2-3. If I put on a 4" fore end adapter and used my BR front rest that may not be required, but I suspect that it will still like a little firmness against the shoulder. I'll never know because once I settle on an ammo, then I'll never shoot it from the bench again.

Update with the Ar Carbine's new Barrel.........and other items.........

So my new barrel arrived a few days ago. Stainless AR/Stoner 1x8 med weight Wylde chamber. I scoped it and it too looked like a Savage barrel with ridges across the rifling the entire bore. The chamber looked okay. Not as good as the chamber I just cut, but not terrible. I expect this barrel to be a foul heavily for the first 200-300 rounds, but that is why I have Iosso and JB. Here is the new barrel vs the old:



I removed the hand guards and found a very weird looking barrel nut. The handguard mounts to the outer sleeve, the barrel nut threads inside of that, and you have to line up one of the four long grooves on the sleeve for the gas tube. Well, there are lots of ways to do things.



I was expecting to have to use a decent amount of force to remove the nut but it came off VERY easily....maybe 15 ft lbs of torque. When I went to install the new barrel, 30 ft lbs was too much. About 15 ft lbs lined everything up. The next groove in the barrel nut would have taken a LOT more torque. So I got a spanner wrench and loosened the barrel nut form the sleeve. It was hard to turn but I backed it off. I then worked to tighten everything back up, starting with the barrel nut. However, I wound up right back where I had started. Now I am sure with the right wrench vs a spanner and some shims I could have got proper torque and alignment, but I wanted different hand guards anyway.

I found THE local AR place and got a 15" hand guard with barrel nut and shims. This barrel nut had slots in it for a skinny open end wrench. I did have one so I used some hex wrenches in opposing slots, put it in my vise, and tightened it with my Brownells reaction wrench. It worked okay. I tightened and loosened a few times, then at 50 ft lbs everything lined up.

Of course, the adjustable gas block wouldn't fit under the new slim hand guards, so I would up using the old old gas block. Then I went to work on the trigger. I had a $10 spring kit and some instructions from @Mojomfg. The end state is a 3.75lb trigger with just a little creep. Maybe the creep will decrease as it wears in, maybe I need to polish some more, or maybe that's as good as it can get with a Mil Spec trigger.

At the range I wound up shooting some of the same and some different ammo than with the old barrel. The feels much better than before. Overall it seemed to shoot a little better and it did shoot a cheap ammo into 2 MOA at 100 yds--Rem/UMC 50 grain JHP. The Rem UMC 55 MC had four shots inside two inches and the fifth made it 3.5". However, there was a 189 fps velocity spread. I think like @jepp2, @Hohn, @damoncali, @spaniel, and maybe some others have mentioned, the cheap FMJ stuff is wildly inconsistent. I was out of the good match stuff the other barrel likes, the 55 grain Hornady, but the Black Hills 77s shot 1.625" and the Hornady 73 ELD Match into 1.75". Empty cases eject at 4:00.

I just learned that I have almost three month gap in my match schedule. Next LR BR Match is June 28th, then not one again until mid to late September. For grins I decided to look at what .223 brass I had on hand. I remembered something about 200 cases of Winchester brass. Wrong. I have 700 cases of new Winchester brass, 500 in one lot and 200 in another--if that would even matter in this gun. So like @New Gun, @dexter, @Adam in WI, @skeeljc, @Bc'z, @Hohn, @Oso, @wkdickinson; and probably most everyone else whether they said so or not, I'll just find a load.

I'm thinking of buying some 69 gain SMKs. I have a lot of Varget and Sierra's accuracy load is 25.3 grains of Varget. I don't really want to use up my BR4s but I should be able to find some non-match primers. If I get a new three-way trimmer for my Henderson precision trimmer, and maybe a small base die; I ought to be able to load quickly enough. I already have a Forster die set with a Lee Crimp die. I was going to say I should use a thrower vs my Auto Trickler/Auto Throw, but these case capacity is small and the Auto Tricker/Auto Throw is pretty fast.

Here is my bench shooting setup. Seems to work well.

 

[Bc'z]

Try benchmark around 25gr with a 55 grain bullet. You'll find something in and around there that will shoot.

 

[CT10ring]

Shooting well isn't a hard skill to develop. My personal assumption is that almost everyone on Accurate Shooter knows how to shoot well and are here to learn and share. I assume we all want to help each other become even better shooters, but this isn't the first rodeo for most of us. If you could care less about my shooting experience/skill, thoughts on shooting, and results, then skip down to the section with the bolded title where I give the latest on my new barrel.

Like many here I have been shooting since age 6. I am ten times that age today. The key in any shooting position is to not pull the trigger until the sights are aligned properly. That applies whether its a moving elk, a BR target, a standing deer, or flushing pheasant. Those are four different subsets of shooting skills but the end goal is the same. The sights must be aligned properly. In order to get proper sight alignment we need consistency in hold and stability in our shooting position....and the shotgun needs to fit well...........

Stability and consistency is easiest to get at the bench and is why a stable bench rest results in the most precision. It's why the smallest groups come from BR, and it is usually the best place to evaluate a rifle and load's accuracy. I had my very low experience son-in-law shooting sub moa from the bench with both a .270 and a .375 H&H in ONE range session. When my youngest daughter was a young teen, I had her shooting a scoped Mini-14 as well as I, which was 2" 5-shot groups at 100 yds.

Next easiest position is prone from rests, then prone with a sling, then seated, kneeling, and finally standing offhand. Each shooting position requires a different approach and takes a little practice to become competent in it. To master any shooting position, even the bench, takes a LOT of time. However, there is also a LOT of skill transfer between the various positions. Like many here I have personally shot them all.

Each gun also requires a different approach though again, there is a LOT of skill overlap whether it is a small handgun for concealed carry, a big handgun, a shotgun, a bolt action, a lever action, a pump action, a DG double rifle, or even a pesky AR. Well, the DR was pesky too............

So how well do I shoot other guns and from other positions?

I had not shot a handgun in six years. A couple days ago I shot both my LC-9 carry guns and my XD-45. Standing unsupported, seven shots from one LC-9 went into a 3" group at 12 yds, center mass. The other LC-9 made a 5" group. I did 3.75" with 10 shots from the XD-45. I sot them in that order. I might be able to tighten that up, but it occurs to me that accuracy level more than meets to purpose for these guns. I did set aside the ammo for the 3" LC9 and I'll try a different ammo in the 5" LC9.

Except for the 435 yd cross canyon shot where I did have to sit down and get stable, all my shots on deer and elk in Oregon have been offhand at ranges between 50 and 100 yds. Several of those animals were moving (mature Blacktail bucks don't stand around for very long when you are close). Of course, ALL the pheasants I have shot have been moving.................

I finally got my 450 NE double rifle tuned to where I could get 2" 4-shots groups at 50 yds. Tuning one of those is harder than tuning a BR rifle because you basically have to get two single shot rifles to shoot the same load to the same POI at 50 yds with the same ammo, open sights, and 65 ft lbs of recoil. I sold it so I could buy my lathe. And no, I didn't shoot it free recoil. Nor did I shoot the 33-28 Nosler I just chambered free recoil.

Usually, when it has been a while, I shoot 8" groups at 100 yds from standing offhand. In a couple range sessions I usually have refined that to about 4" groups. Whether it's an iron sighted Garand or a scoped rifle doesn't seem to make much difference. I think the true masters at standing offhand shoot more in the 2 MOA range, but I am not sure. I have never tried to develop more than 4 MOA offhand accuracy because that allows me clean snap shots on deer at the distance where I see them 95% of the time. Even so, I still look for a field rest whenever I can find one--a tree, a log, a rock, etc.

Concerning BR, I shoot NBRSA LR BR at 600 and 1000 yds. I sometimes do well and sometimes not. I have placed higher than national champions and then placed lower to less experienced competitors. Each match I learn something new. One match I'll have the wind figured and dialed in, the next I won't and I'll wonder if I ever did have it figured out. I have one rifle ready to compete this year, a 300 WSM Light Gun. It shoots .25 to .3 MOA at 200 yds. I am still working on my second gun, a 6 BRA. It has yet to shoot better than a 1/2" 5-shot group at 200 yds and it needs to average 3/8" or better. (The 6mms need to shoot tighter at close range than the 300s.) I got the chamber really nice on this 6 BRA barrel, but so far it isn't shooting as well as my last 6 BRA barrel where I screwed up and cut the chamber oversize.

I have had a few ARs. Three were 20" A2 match rifles and all shot sub-moa. The best shooting one of all was a Ruger SR-762. Sub 3/4" groups, 2600 fps, 20 FPS ES with Fed GM 168s. That equals a 800 yd capable rifle.

I shot two Highpower matches with one of those match ARs several years ago during my second year of 1000 yd BR. First was a reduced course at 200, the second was a full 600 yd course of fire. Both times I scored mid-pack, beating half of those knuckleheads who said I'd finish dead last. I did not stick with Highpower. LR BR is more interesting to me and I enjoy my fellow BR competitors.

This current carbine is the worst AR I have had accuracy wise, which isn't unexpected. It needs to be held when shooting from a bench like my grown up bolt guns need to be held, but for a different reason. The bolt guns will launch themselves out of the rest if I don't hold down the fore end. Also, they hurt if not firmly held. Now that is still an accurate way to shoot. I have lots of 1/2" 100 yd groups from rifles that generate 50+ ft lbs recoil while using a "hard hold."

The AR carbine needs to be held down because it has all this action movement when it fires. It doesn't need to be held hard, but if I am holding the big bolt guns at a 5, then the AR likes to be held at a 2-3. If I put on a 4" fore end adapter and used my BR front rest that may not be required, but I suspect that it will still like a little firmness against the shoulder. I'll never know because once I settle on an ammo, then I'll never shoot it from the bench again.

Update with the Ar Carbine's new Barrel.........and other items.........

So my new barrel arrived a few days ago. Stainless AR/Stoner 1x8 med weight Wylde chamber. I scoped it and it too looked like a Savage barrel with ridges across the rifling the entire bore. The chamber looked okay. Not as good as the chamber I just cut, but not terrible. I expect this barrel to be a foul heavily for the first 200-300 rounds, but that is why I have Iosso and JB. Here is the new barrel vs the old:

View attachment 1185770

I removed the hand guards and found a very weird looking barrel nut. The handguard mounts to the outer sleeve, the barrel nut threads inside of that, and you have to line up one of the four long grooves on the sleeve for the gas tube. Well, there are lots of ways to do things.

View attachment 1185760

I was expecting to have to use a decent amount of force to remove the nut but it came off VERY easily....maybe 15 ft lbs of torque. When I went to install the new barrel, 30 ft lbs was too much. About 15 ft lbs lined everything up. The next groove in the barrel nut would have taken a LOT more torque. So I got a spanner wrench and loosened the barrel nut form the sleeve. It was hard to turn but I backed it off. I then worked to tighten everything back up, starting with the barrel nut. However, I wound up right back where I had started. Now I am sure with the right wrench vs a spanner and some shims I could have got proper torque and alignment, but I wanted different hand guards anyway.

I found THE local AR place and got a 15" hand guard with barrel nut and shims. This barrel nut had slots in it for a skinny open end wrench. I did have one so I used some hex wrenches in opposing slots, put it in my vise, and tightened it with my Brownells reaction wrench. It worked okay. I tightened and loosened a few times, then at 50 ft lbs everything lined up.

Of course, the adjustable gas block wouldn't fit under the new slim hand guards, so I would up using the old old gas block. Then I went to work on the trigger. I had a $10 spring kit and some instructions from @Mojomfg. The end state is a 3.75lb trigger with just a little creep. Maybe the creep will decrease as it wears in, maybe I need to polish some more, or maybe that's as good as it can get with a Mil Spec trigger.

At the range I wound up shooting some of the same and some different ammo than with the old barrel. The feels much better than before. Overall it seemed to shoot a little better and it did shoot a cheap ammo into 2 MOA at 100 yds--Rem/UMC 50 grain JHP. The Rem UMC 55 MC had four shots inside two inches and the fifth made it 3.5". However, there was a 189 fps velocity spread. I think like @jepp2, @Hohn, @damoncali, @spaniel, and maybe some others have mentioned, the cheap FMJ stuff is wildly inconsistent. I was out of the good match stuff the other barrel likes, the 55 grain Hornady, but the Black Hills 77s shot 1.625" and the Hornady 73 ELD Match into 1.75". Empty cases eject at 4:00.

I just learned that I have almost three month gap in my match schedule. Next LR BR Match is June 28th, then not one again until mid to late September. For grins I decided to look at what .223 brass I had on hand. I remembered something about 200 cases of Winchester brass. Wrong. I have 700 cases of new Winchester brass, 500 in one lot and 200 in another--if that would even matter in this gun. So like @New Gun, @dexter, @Adam in WI, @skeeljc, @Bc'z, @Hohn, @Oso, @wkdickinson; and probably most everyone else whether they said so or not, I'll just find a load.

I'm thinking of buying some 69 gain SMKs. I have a lot of Varget and Sierra's accuracy load is 25.3 grains of Varget. I don't really want to use up my BR4s but I should be able to find some non-match primers. If I get a new three-way trimmer for my Henderson precision trimmer, and maybe a small base die; I ought to be able to load quickly enough. I already have a Forster die set with a Lee Crimp die. I was going to say I should use a thrower vs my Auto Trickler/Auto Throw, but these case capacity is small and the Auto Tricker/Auto Throw is pretty fast.

Here is my bench shooting setup. Seems to work well.

View attachment 1185778

My apologies for my brusque posts earlier. A function of me getting older and cranky truth be told. You are deep into shooting, accuracy and the knowledge and equipment required to get there. I learn from every post + appreciate your taking the time to share your experience, and causes, effects and solutions.

 

[INTJ]

My apologies for my brusque posts earlier. A function of me getting older and cranky truth be told. You are deep into shooting, accuracy and the knowledge and equipment required to get there. I learn from every post + appreciate your taking the time to share your experience, and causes, effects and solutions.

No sweat. One problem we have here is until we get to know someone we don't really know what they can do and have done. And we continually run across new shooters who make basic mistakes because they just don't know better. It occurred to me that I needed to explain a bit to get the type of input I needed.

The biggest is to just suck it up and load for this thing, or else be happy with 3-4 MOA cheap ammo.....