Barrel Accuracy

[AllenOne1]

How do you honesty determine that a barrel is bad or if not bad that it is shooting at it's limitations of accuracy?

I have a barrel I installed recently that is shooting groups averaging 3.9 at 600 yards while that isn't "bad" it doesn't seem great for a premium barrel either. It isn't going to win any matches around here. For reference I had a factory barrel that was shooting 3.91 average groups with 1900 rounds through it.

I did notice what I think may be a flaw in the rifling lead area, contacted the manufacturer and was told to shoot it and see if it shoots. Well that brings on the question, is it shooting or not?

Since I know you will ask it is a Savage model 10, 6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 1/8 twist, 140 gr ELD-M over H4350

 

[butchlambert]

What type of bedded stock is it in?

 

[AllenOne1]

What type of bedded stock is it in?

It is in a GRS stock with the built in pillars it is not bedded to the stock. I have thought about bedding it at least in the lug area but GRS does not suggesting bedding these stocks.

 

[jonbearman]

When you sat premium barrel that is to general. As long as you aren't bashing the company could you state who made it, I think it would paint a clearer picture.

 

[AllenOne1]

Not bashing the company at all as their reputation is extremely good and they are producing very good product. I'm just trying to figure out how to determine if a barrel is shooting to expectations of a premium barrel, how those expectations should be defined and how this can be accurately tested.

Barrel a Proof Research SS 6.5cm, 24" threaded Sendero contour

 

[338 Mollett]

A good forgiving bullet is a Sie. 142.If it shoots well, then you can pursue any lust you have using other loads .

 

[Ranger188]

As long as you have confidence in your reloading skills and have tried different bullet
and powder combinations. Some barrels don't like this or that.
And every once in a while, you'll find a rifle (barrel) that just won't shoot.
I had one and just got rid of it.

 

[Texas10]

How do you honesty determine that a barrel is bad or if not bad that it is shooting at it's limitations of accuracy?

I have a barrel I installed recently that is shooting groups averaging 3.9 at 600 yards while that isn't "bad" it doesn't seem great for a premium barrel either. It isn't going to win any matches around here. For reference I had a factory barrel that was shooting 3.91 average groups with 1900 rounds through it.

I did notice what I think may be a flaw in the rifling lead area, contacted the manufacturer and was told to shoot it and see if it shoots. Well that brings on the question, is it shooting or not?

Since I know you will ask it is a Savage model 10, 6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 1/8 twist, 140 gr ELD-M over H4350

As a comparison my newly built 6.5 CM on a Savage action, 24 inch X-caliber heavy varmint contour 8 twist, shooting 140 and 142 smk's over H4350 is making .3 moa groups at 300. Savage laminate stock, cheap ($265) optics. An 8 inch steel at 700 yds is no challenge.

I inspected the barrel when it was new using my Teslong. It was absolutely beautiful internally and as far as I could tell, perfectly made and without defects.

I'm thinking you should return it.

 

[AllenOne1]

As long as you have confidence in your reloading skills and have tried different bullet
and powder combinations. Some barrels don't like this or that.
And every once in a while, you'll find a rifle (barrel) that just won't shoot.
I had one and just got rid of it.

I haven't tried different bullets in this barrel that may be worth a try. I am staying with what I know and have had good luck with in the past.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If it hasnt shown you anything you like with what you have confidence in get rid of it. Life is too short

 

[Bc'z]

I'll second trying different bullets.
I moved from Hornady 143eldx to berger 140gr bullets, now I'm shooting scenar's with tremendous success in my 6five.

 

[USMCDOC]

I'll second trying different bullets.
I moved from Hornady 143eldx to berger 140gr bullets, now I'm shooting scenar's with tremendous success in my 6five.

it's all a matter of trying to find the correct leg to stand on..

 

[Ranger188]

You need to try at least a 2-3 different combinations. Only change one thing at a time.
Just because that combo worked once it doesn't mean it will work in another barrel.

 

[Rdlningcltchdmpr]

How do you honesty determine that a barrel is bad or if not bad that it is shooting at it's limitations of accuracy?

I have a barrel I installed recently that is shooting groups averaging 3.9 at 600 yards while that isn't "bad" it doesn't seem great for a premium barrel either. It isn't going to win any matches around here. For reference I had a factory barrel that was shooting 3.91 average groups with 1900 rounds through it.

I did notice what I think may be a flaw in the rifling lead area, contacted the manufacturer and was told to shoot it and see if it shoots. Well that brings on the question, is it shooting or not?

Since I know you will ask it is a Savage model 10, 6.5 Creedmoor, 24" barrel, 1/8 twist, 140 gr ELD-M over H4350

Many things go into accuracy , I'm sure you know. I recently replaced rings to fix accuracy. Two years ago i replaced a scope to fix accuracy, 3/4" groups shrunk to 1/4". In your case i would bet money that another powder would fix your accuracy. R16,R17,R19, 4831sc. N160, n555, Hunter. Ect. Many times folks make assumptions as to the powder that is supposed to be great and are completely wrong. I've seen it over and over, and stubborn and not willing to switch powders. Even if 5 or 6 powders all make the same speed, one powder will outshine all the others. Only way to find out , is trying them. I have been surprised many times regarding my expectations vs results.

 

[jelenko]

I'm wondering if it would help to test loads at a shorter distance - so there's less chance of impact from wind?

Personally, I'm happy if I get 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups - recognizing that there will be a dispersion in group size and that some groups will be larger than 1/2 MOA. But, I shoot in 'cross the course' competition and 1/2 MOA is great for us.
If you're looking for benchrest accuracy, the groups have to be in 1's and 2's, yes?

 

[msinc]

I'm wondering if it would help to test loads at a shorter distance - so there's less chance of impact from wind?...….

This is an excellent point, and I would also test in calm conditions. This removes, {maybe "lessens and better controls" is a better way to say it} two variables that you don't want in the mix.
From reading this I see you are saying you had one barrel that shot 3.91 and so does the new one.....sounds like it may not be the barrel.
The only other thing I would add is that both myself and a good friend of mine that shoots with me both found the 130 grain Berger bullets to work excellent in his Creedmore and my 260 when nothing else wanted to group. Best of luck.

Edit: almost forgot...there was one more thing. Without exception, for me, every stock I ever owned or worked on that was supposed to be one that "you don't need to bed" turned out to work way better after I bedded it anyway!!

 

[AllenOne1]

I'm wondering if it would help to test loads at a shorter distance - so there's less chance of impact from wind?

Personally, I'm happy if I get 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups - recognizing that there will be a dispersion in group size and that some groups will be larger than 1/2 MOA. But, I shoot in 'cross the course' competition and 1/2 MOA is great for us.
If you're looking for benchrest accuracy, the groups have to be in 1's and 2's, yes?

If I could get 1/2 MOA groups I would be happy 1/3 MOA would be over the top. I don't have a benchrest quality gun or rest system so getting that type of accuracy is probably not realistic.

 

[AllenOne1]

This is an excellent point, and I would also test in calm conditions. This removes, {maybe "lessens and better controls" is a better way to say it} two variables that you don't want in the mix.
From reading this I see you are saying you had one barrel that shot 3.91 and so does the new one.....sounds like it may not be the barrel.
The only other thing I would add is that both myself and a good friend of mine that shoots with me both found the 130 grain Berger bullets to work excellent in his Creedmore and my 260 when nothing else wanted to group. Best of luck.

Edit: almost forgot...there was one more thing. Without exception, for me, every stock I ever owned or worked on that was supposed to be one that "you don't need to bed" turned out to work way better after I bedded it anyway!!

sounds like it may not be the barrel.
This may be correct it may well be the shooter and or a mix of other variables. I guess I just assume better results should be obtained with an aftermarket barrel vs a factory barrel. I'm working on refining anything that can improve my shooting or rifle system.

turned out to work way better after I bedded it anyway!![/QUOTE]
Interesting! An idea that I have stuck in the back of my head. Are you bedding with epoxy/Devcon or something like Acraglass?

 

[AllenOne1]

Many things go into accuracy , I'm sure you know. I recently replaced rings to fix accuracy. Two years ago i replaced a scope to fix accuracy, 3/4" groups shrunk to 1/4". In your case i would bet money that another powder would fix your accuracy. R16,R17,R19, 4831sc. N160, n555, Hunter. Ect. Many times folks make assumptions as to the powder that is supposed to be great and are completely wrong. I've seen it over and over, and stubborn and not willing to switch powders. Even if 5 or 6 powders all make the same speed, one powder will outshine all the others. Only way to find out , is trying them. I have been surprised many times regarding my expectations vs results.

I have been wondering if I need to find a different node or move within the node, of course I have been thinking about a a lot of things, have not really thought that I may need a new powder in the mix.

 

[msinc]

sounds like it may not be the barrel.
This may be correct it may well be the shooter and or a mix of other variables. I guess I just assume better results should be obtained with an aftermarket barrel vs a factory barrel. I'm working on refining anything that can improve my shooting or rifle system.

turned out to work way better after I bedded it anyway!!

Interesting! An idea that I have stuck in the back of my head. Are you bedding with epoxy/Devcon or something like Acraglass?[/QUOTE]

It's all epoxy in one form or name or another....I have had good success with Devcon and Acra-Glass. I have also used JB Weld too. I have used clear Devcon epoxy as well and added dye to make it the color I wanted. I haven't tried any of the "5 minute" epoxy, but I am sure it would probably work too.
What do you have for a trigger in this thing??? What is the pull weight???