Backup Generators

[dryhumor]

Thats some great info ill certainly consider-- thanks

Overall, many issues with NG or LP are fuel related. The single most important part of a successful installation is the fuel supply. It is so important to success that I take pictures of good ones. Of course, I also take pics of bad ones....

I’ll never forget years ago driving about 3 hours to start one up, and seeing they guy had snaked 3/8 copper line from a 20 lb grill tank to the generator. He never believed me when I told him “Cap, that ain’t gonna work...” Finally I hit the switch and and provided it to him. I think he got what I was telling him about vaporization at that point.

 

[painter]

Try Generators Direct on the web you might be surprised at the price 20k watts should be less than $5000.00 Look for an electrician locally neighbor just paid one $600.00 for hook up. Did mine myself.

 

[dryhumor]

Since it crossed my mind.

if you have a lot of electronics; be it computers, LED lighting, UPS, variable frequency drives, motors, solid state, etc. these will affect the voltage output of a generator. Ask whom ever is selling, “what do ^^^ the above items do to the voltage output”? “Is this generator affected by these devices to instability”? “How does the voltage sensing filter unwanted harmonics”?

Some generators do not tolerate these types of loads very well. The way they produce and regulate voltage is affected by the harmonics made by these devices.

 

[carlsbad]

I couldn't read this whole thread but I'll post a few items since I work for a power company:

1. 10Kw should be plenty unless you want the ability to run your welder and table saw while cooking. If you have electrical stove and dryer you may have to be careful but no more often than you will need to use it I doubt you'll need more.
2. The Transfer Switch is not just a convenience, it is generally required by law. It is a lockout that makes sure you can't accidentally backfeed from your generator onto the out of service power line and electrocute the lineman working to restore power to your house. Basicly they make sure your main breaker is open before closing in on your generator.

--Jerry

 

[DRNewcomb]

good info- the manual models would be good enough for me. thanks

The sort of dual fuel I was discussing is an either/or proposition. You can run it on gasoline or natural gas or propane but you can't switch on the fly. If you run the generator on gasoline, you have to cut the gasoline valve off and run the carburetor dry before attaching the natural gas or propane. Switching between NG and propane requires an adjustment of the gas injector.

 

[M-61]

I needed reliability as THE #1 requirement. This was to supply electricity for ALL of the machines and equipment that was keeping my youngest brother alive. Very rural area with plenty of blackouts due to trees coming down as all the electric in that area is above ground and outages are frequent.
Diesel powered propane fuel generator producing 20KW was what I chose. GENERAC. It also kept their well water available and of course heat. Ran everything in his house. Amount of propane gave plenty of run time. No worries about gasoline going bad over time. Plus delivery of propane was no concern.
Just another thought on a decision that could be a life or death one.

 

[Papa Charlie]

No, but I can tell you that some years ago they completely abandoned their small generator line. I had a Generac 3 kW portable that they refused to support in any way.

I know that the small portables had the engine made in China. Not sure who makes the engines for the standby power systems. I do know that they have a huge plant to make the generator ends and the controls.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Thats some good info Papa. I looked at those on the home depot site last nite and saw they have 13 and 16 KW units to. Ill be figuring my load. Ill prob power the whole panel then turn off individual circuits if I need to. Interesting you live in a boat. Are you based around seattle. Ive been up there and to Everett as i used to live in Portland. Thanks

I am in the Port of Everett Marina. I am a Finance Pricing & Estimator at Boeing in Everett so is is extremely convenient being only 7.5 miles from work, depending on which building I am in.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Thats some great info based on practical experience. There is alot to consider based on a persons situation. I agree on the Nat gas and I think if that gets shut off Ill get outta here if i can. Mabie not though-- On one hand id like to hook up my own portable generator when i need it. But then I may be away from home alot so an autostart whole house unit would be good in that case. Im glad you brought up the dual fuel cause I was thinking of looking for a duel fuel model. So ill look over that US carbueration Co. I didnt know about them. Thats good knowhow on the dual fuel generator. Thats what Id really like to have. Thanks

Another advantage of the Generac system is it is Blue Tooth compatible. So if you are away and your genset kicked on, it will send you a message. You can also check on the run status from your phone and start or stop it as well. Pretty cool system.

 

[Kramerica]

I have been thinking about that and in my job may be helping build a solar farm soon. ill be looking into it for myself. I know a local lumber yard put a bunch of solar panels on their warehouses. I think they said it would pay for itself in 5 years and then they would have no electric utility cost. Have you put a solar system in? Thanks for the info.

Not yet, I probably will in the future. No bill will be nice. And if power stays out for an extended time you don’t worry about getting a fuel source. Unless the sun doesn’t shine but there’s trade off with everything. My problem was getting hooked into the grid on a new build since I’m so far off the road, and I’m too far north to just run straight solar. Got it all sorted out though. Check Tesla out.

 

[Macropod]

Don't know it it's been mentioned yet BUT. Very important. If you are going to run your house on a generator. PLEASE, use an isolation switch. If you connect to your house power wiring and it is still connected to the incoming line you can KILL a lineman who thinks the line is dead. Power companies require a bona fide transfer switch..

The power from your generator can backfeed the power companies off line system.. I have seen it happen. Don't be that guy

I knew an electrician who was killed with that same scenario, two houses down the street after a severe storm brought lines down. A properly installed changeover switch is essential.
I have seen double male ended extension cords used and as an electrician, this upsets me greatly. Folks just do not understand the implications of doing this.

 

[velocette]

All this talk about gennys & I have forgotten to run mine this month! All in good time, have an informal smallbore prone match tomorrow and genny will have to wait until Sunday. : )

 

[hoz53]

I am in the Port of Everett Marina. I am a Finance Pricing & Estimator at Boeing in Everett so is is extremely convenient being only 7.5 miles from work, depending on which building I am in.

oh that is cool. i signed the book in Everett once and was gonna take a call at Boeing just to get to work there- ended up going over the hill to Wenatchee though--

 

[dave@aDave]

I have an "all electric house". Did my research for about a month before I made a decision.
a) check with your electrical supplier for their requirements. My supplier only mandated an Automatic Buss Transfer Switch. This automatically disconnects your house from the utility and shuts down the generator and hooks you back to the utility when they regain service.
b) make an inventory of all of the electron consuming equipment you have and add up its power requirements. You may be surprised at your electrical requirements, add another 15% to the total.
c) go with natural gas if possible. It will de-rate your generator about 10% but it's cost effective.
d) check with local and state governments about permits and their requirements.
e) use an electrician has the highest rated license of your state, bonded, insured, and has workman's comp. Get a contract that requires him to get ALL of the necessary permits and inspections. Pay him when all of the work is installed, permitted, and inspect by the electric utility and government. Trust me on this. if your friend does the work and your house burns down, the insurance company more that likely will not pay

To make a long story short: I went with a 20 Kw Generac with natural gas and Automatic Buss Transfer Switch. The installation was with one of Lowe's contractors who was 75 miles away. The local code required two (2) Digital Load Managers (DLM), these isolate the stove when the heat pump is on, the other isolates the clothes dryer when the water is on. The natural gas service costs $7.00 per 1,000 cubic feet. I have never gone over the $7.00 monthly minimum.

Install the generator as close to the gas meter as possible to prevent a pressure loss.


Total cost for everything was $8,500.00.

note: Generac and Kohler had the same size generator with the same warranty. Kohler was my first choice. The contractor, who puts in about 20 a month, said the Generac has less problems
The generator self-checks itself once a week for RPM/frequency, voltage, oil level, and battery voltage (the unit has and installed trickle charger for the battery)
Have the installer come out once a year to check it out and change the oil, filter, etc.

 

[hoz53]

I couldn't read this whole thread but I'll post a few items since I work for a power company:

1. 10Kw should be plenty unless you want the ability to run your welder and table saw while cooking. If you have electrical stove and dryer you may have to be careful but no more often than you will need to use it I doubt you'll need more.
2. The Transfer Switch is not just a convenience, it is generally required by law. It is a lockout that makes sure you can't accidentally backfeed from your generator onto the out of service power line and electrocute the lineman working to restore power to your house. Basicly they make sure your main breaker is open before closing in on your generator.

--Jerry

Lol jerry. I may need table saw to cut eggs I make my shop is a mile from the house but i do have a radial and table saw at both places. Yeah i think 10 K would work for me. that is very important about the transfer switch I know. Ive known that awhile as im an electrician but its sure good to let anyone reading this know. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

Overall, many issues with NG or LP are fuel related. The single most important part of a successful installation is the fuel supply. It is so important to success that I take pictures of good ones. Of course, I also take pics of bad ones....

I’ll never forget years ago driving about 3 hours to start one up, and seeing they guy had snaked 3/8 copper line from a 20 lb grill tank to the generator. He never believed me when I told him “Cap, that ain’t gonna work...” Finally I hit the switch and and provided it to him. I think he got what I was telling him about vaporization at that point.

I got a chuckle out of this post. Ive seen installs like that of lots of different things. especially around here- back in the 80s there really were no building codes.

 

[hoz53]

The sort of dual fuel I was discussing is an either/or proposition. You can run it on gasoline or natural gas or propane but you can't switch on the fly. If you run the generator on gasoline, you have to cut the gasoline valve off and run the carburetor dry before attaching the natural gas or propane. Switching between NG and propane requires an adjustment of the gas injector.

Right and that would be good with me. Thanks

 

[hoz53]

I needed reliability as THE #1 requirement. This was to supply electricity for ALL of the machines and equipment that was keeping my youngest brother alive. Very rural area with plenty of blackouts due to trees coming down as all the electric in that area is above ground and outages are frequent.
Diesel powered propane fuel generator producing 20KW was what I chose. GENERAC. It also kept their well water available and of course heat. Ran everything in his house. Amount of propane gave plenty of run time. No worries about gasoline going bad over time. Plus delivery of propane was no concern.
Just another thought on a decision that could be a life or death one.

Wow thats serious stuff- youre brother is lucky to have you. Is that diesal and propane- i didnt quite understand - Thanks

 

[hoz53]

I know that the small portables had the engine made in China. Not sure who makes the engines for the standby power systems. I do know that they have a huge plant to make the generator ends and the controls.

where is that plant?

 

[hoz53]

Another advantage of the Generac system is it is Blue Tooth compatible. So if you are away and your genset kicked on, it will send you a message. You can also check on the run status from your phone and start or stop it as well. Pretty cool system.

i sure would like having those capabilities