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Backup Generators

Generac is probably one of the best home emergency generators you can buy today. A whole home unit 22KW unit m(200A Service) unit with the automatic transfer switch will run you about $5k. Then there is installation and if you are going to power the whole panel, then you should use an electrician to do the wiring. The generator and the transfer switch you can install.

When we finally move back on land, this is what will be installed in our house. Right now my boat has an 8KW Westerbeke diesel generator. Although it isn't auto start.

I use to sell generators from 5KW to 10,000KW. Back before Generac you would be looking at three times that cost to equip a home with total backup.

Here is a link for reference. https://www.generac.com/all-product...kup-generators#?cat=6&cat=214&cat=217&cat=249
Thats some good info Papa. I looked at those on the home depot site last nite and saw they have 13 and 16 KW units to. Ill be figuring my load. Ill prob power the whole panel then turn off individual circuits if I need to. Interesting you live in a boat. Are you based around seattle. Ive been up there and to Everett as i used to live in Portland. Thanks
 
No, but I can tell you that some years ago they completely abandoned their small generator line. I had a Generac 3 kW portable that they refused to support in any way.
i remember when they built the portable models to and i never thought they were the greatest quality. Coarse that has nothing to do with what they build now.
 
Having a Champion electric start commercial type contractor/home generator on wheels, if I had to do it over, I'd have gone much larger. I too lost power two days ago from a big storm. Still on generator power. This morning the wife was getting ready for work. Blow drying her hair after a shower where hot water use caused the 80 gallon(electric) hot water heater to cycle. Well pump also filling the tank caused the generator breaker to pop. Generator is around 8000/10,000. Well, hot water heater, well pump, blow dryer and if just one or two of the 5 fridge/ freezers we have decided to kick on, its already too much for my generator. After doing the math, I'd need around 16-20,000 watts to maintain the entire house without turning off certain breakers while running other items. My next purchase WILL be a stand alone generator hooked to my 500 lb propane pig. I can do most of the work so cost won't be too bad.
thats a good reminder- those loads can add up fast. thanks
 
My house went through Hurricane Katrina. I wasn't there but when I got back, the pilot light on my gas water heater was still burning. I had no lights and my phone could only call local numbers on the BellSouth switch but I had hot and cold running water. I came back with my brother-in-law's generator. I quickly realized that it was one thing to have a generator and quite another thing to be able to get fuel for it. I ended up running the generator one hour in the morning and two hours in the evening, mostly to keep the fridge cold. Family members had to bring me gasoline from 100 miles away. Fortunately, Mississippi Power was able to restore electric service in a week. My brother, who went through Hurricane Ivan the year before, had predicted that it would take a month.

My experience with the natural gas service after Katrina convinced me that I could rely on it as a generator fuel. I decided to go for flexibility and set up a dual-fuel generator. This way I could power my house with NG or load it up and take it to a friend, to be fueled by gasoline, if needed. I bought a new 5 kW roll-around generator and got a dual-fuel conversion kit from US Carburetion. I have a valve and quick disconnect fitting on my gas meter and can get the generator out and running in about 30 minutes. The whole setup cost me less than $1,000 and over the last 12 years has cost nothing to maintain. Unlike small gasoline engines, NG generators don't age appreciably. I just drag it out once a year and run it for thirty minutes or so with about 2 kW of load attached.

Some of my neighbors decided that they didn't even want to know that there had been a storm and installed "whole house" generators that cost north of $10,000. I think there's an annual service contract they have to pay. That's their decision.
Thats some great info based on practical experience. There is alot to consider based on a persons situation. I agree on the Nat gas and I think if that gets shut off Ill get outta here if i can. Mabie not though-- On one hand id like to hook up my own portable generator when i need it. But then I may be away from home alot so an autostart whole house unit would be good in that case. Im glad you brought up the dual fuel cause I was thinking of looking for a duel fuel model. So ill look over that US carbueration Co. I didnt know about them. Thats good knowhow on the dual fuel generator. Thats what Id really like to have. Thanks
 
Im glad you brought up the dual fuel cause I was thinking of looking for a duel fuel model. So ill look over that US carbueration Co. I didnt know about them. Thats good knowhow on the dual fuel generator. Thats what Id really like to have. Thanks
If you decide to go this way, it's best to buy a generator with a lot of open space. You have to extend the carburetor out by about 1" and find a home for the demand regulator. I was able to fit everything inside the frame of this generator.
Generator2.JPG

BTW, there's a lot to be said for inverter generators. Unlike traditional generators, they don't have to run at a constant speed. During periods of low load, they can idle, which makes they extremely fuel efficient. The down-side is that they are on the spendy side when it comes time to buy one. If you need a generator for an RV or mountain cabin, they're a good idea. Maybe not so much for emergency use.
 
I commission generators and switchgear for a living. Good advice in this thread.

Look at which fuel is going to be hardest to have delivered in an event. Might be tanks full of propane at the fuel company, but no diesel for the trucks. Natural gas is shut off in seismic events, though it is the cheapest. I’ve been partial to diesel.

Always size the tank for the worst case run to fuel consumption. If propane, it must be sized to give the required surface area for vaporization. If NG or propane, keep the fuel piping as straight as possible, size it 50% larger than the stated CFH required. If diesel, install a water separator filter with valves before and after, to allow changing. Keep diesel tanks at 80-90 percent to inhibit condensation on the inner tank wall.

NG or propane are a bit more complicated to operate from the engine side, diesel less so, unless it is Tier 4, and Tier 4 hasn’t overrun the standby market, yet.

As an electrician you can troubleshoot and repair most problems yourself. Our service rate is $125 and hour, my position is $150. At those dealer rates, for a homeowner, those Lowe’s generators are throwaways.

You need enough KVA to start required loads, and enough running KVA to load the engine to 30% minimum. If you can’t maintain that loading, you need to put resistance load on the unit once a year to get to 80-100% load for an hour or so.

Time has shown, in my experience, that every 9-12 years there will be an expense. Unless a lightning strike occurs. Control boards run from a few hundred to a couple thousand. Aftermarket controls are a cheaper option, and work in most cases. Not all sensors are compatible. Always consider parts availability and lead times.

The less complicated the package, the cheaper it is to purchase and run. But a cheap package can cost you a lot of money.

Consider a PTO driven generator, if you have a tractor. A crafty fellow could come up with a generator end, fabricate a coupling, design a voltage regulation system and be set just that quick. Or you could buy one...

Almost all 12 lead generators can be rewired from three phase to single phase. There may be a required change to meters and the voltage regulator, possibly the control board. It’s not always cut and dry, so due diligence prevails.

Manual transfer switches have no controls to fail. An indicating circuit on the line side can alert you when power is restored. ATS switches are subject to surges and lightning strikes. There is a wide variety out there, and a lot of bells and whistles.
Alot of great info here Thanks-- Im reminded to check my NG meter capacity. I think the best way to cover any situation is to be able to use multiple fuels. I do like to build stuff myself. I actually have a gas engine i took out of a riding lawn mower i was thinking of making into a generator. Lot of Amish around here and they use generators so there is alot of availability around here. Ill be checking into them. I do like simple and things i can fix myself. Id much prefer to have a manual transfer switch instead of a ATS for that reason but the ATS would be great if im outta town, which i would be if Covid wasnt here. Dont have a tractor. My house is in town. I do need to bone up on the voltage regulation. Ill prob end up going with multiple options. Thanks Again
 
If you decide to go this way, it's best to buy a generator with a lot of open space. You have to extend the carburetor out by about 1" and find a home for the demand regulator. I was able to fit everything inside the frame of this generator.
Generator2.JPG

BTW, there's a lot to be said for inverter generators. Unlike traditional generators, they don't have to run at a constant speed. During periods of low load, they can idle, which makes they extremely fuel efficient. The down-side is that they are on the spendy side when it comes time to buy one. If you need a generator for an RV or mountain cabin, they're a good idea. Maybe not so much for emergency use.
Ive got an old dayton 4500W generator. Mabie ill use it for the dual fuel guinea pig. it would run what i really need. depending on time of year -- i do have two places- one is my shop and it doesnt need power except in winter for heat. I took the dayton out of its frame some time ago so wont be any problems fitting parts to it. i appreciate the info on the dual fuel conversion and the inverter use. I think ill be getting at least one of those portable inverters. I can use that for alot of things and hook it into the house or shop if needed. Thanks
 
Any experts know why he was so negative about Generac?

Just because it has (insert name here) on it, provides no significance as to what sort of engineering went into it or what kind of reliability you’ll get out of it. I’ve seen a lot of recommendations thrown out in this thread, I can’t say which is hands down the cats azz, but some do things better than others.

I will say, that in working with generators you quickly become aware of shortcomings. There are different ones within the product lines that are more stable, in that they change very little. Some, to meet certain price points change significantly through time. The user doesn’t see a lot of it, they still start, run, and carry load. That’s about all it needs to do from the owners point of view.

Generacs are challenging at times unless you deal with them regularly, smaller NG and LP specifically. That’s about as nice as I can be in public. FWIW, their diesel sets are far less challenging. :D
 
I worked on the construction of a microsoft data center once. They had 10 Big Cat generators for backup and they ran them on diesel. I dont know how available Nat Gas was there at the time though. Im sure they had a good reason(s) to run diesal. Im not gonna spend even 10k on this project and I dont want to store diesel or gas either. Im not really trying to prep for a catastrophe just outages. Im by myself and if things really break down ill just get outta here. Thanks

Diesels are up and running a bit faster, and are more responsive to large block loads.
 
Concerning duel fuel, I haven’t started one up in years, but we did carry a duel fuel NG LP fueled line. NG primary. If fuel was cut off, a pressure switch would actuate the cutover to LP. Generally they didn’t miss a beat, it’s just a timing change in the ignition as LP is the richer fuel. This was before the latest emissions regs, I’m curious now what’s currently available. There are still manual cutover duel fuels out there, but I don’t know about automatic.
 
Diesels are up and running a bit faster, and are more responsive to large block loads.
youre reminding me of that data center again- They had rooms full of deep cycle lead acid batteries(100s) just to handle the load during switchover while the diesels came on line.
 
You might look at RV generators. Diesel and fairly robust. Fuel tanks aren’t very big but bigger tanks can be had.
 
Just because it has (insert name here) on it, provides no significance as to what sort of engineering went into it or what kind of reliability you’ll get out of it. I’ve seen a lot of recommendations thrown out in this thread, I can’t say which is hands down the cats azz, but some do things better than others.

I will say, that in working with generators you quickly become aware of shortcomings. There are different ones within the product lines that are more stable, in that they change very little. Some, to meet certain price points change significantly through time. The user doesn’t see a lot of it, they still start, run, and carry load. That’s about all it needs to do from the owners point of view.

Generacs are challenging at times unless you deal with them regularly, smaller NG and LP specifically. That’s about as nice as I can be in public. FWIW, their diesel sets are far less challenging. :D
Thats some great info ill certainly consider-- thanks
 
Concerning duel fuel, I haven’t started one up in years, but we did carry a duel fuel NG LP fueled line. NG primary. If fuel was cut off, a pressure switch would actuate the cutover to LP. Generally they didn’t miss a beat, it’s just a timing change in the ignition as LP is the richer fuel. This was before the latest emissions regs, I’m curious now what’s currently available. There are still manual cutover duel fuels out there, but I don’t know about automatic.
good info- the manual models would be good enough for me. thanks
 

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