MOST ACCURATE BULLET IN THE WORLD

[IdahoSharpshooter]

The ONLY factory rifles I have seen, in about 50 or so years personal experience, capable of accurately testing a bullet's accuracy capabilities are the Savage 12BV-SS rifles in .308 Winchester; and that with cast bullets in the registered, shot shoulder to shoulder matches at 100/200/300 yardages by the Cast Bullet Assn.. One need only check the records the CBA has kept since about 1990 (perhaps longer) to see this. The 12BV-SS was so dominant that the CBA set up classes that did not allow the Savages to compete, due to their weight. Savage responded by shortening the barrels to meet the weight limit.

Believing anything, based solely on writer samples is like believing that those rifles used were box stock, chosen at random off the production line, or from distributors.

Reading magazine articles RE accuracy requires suspension of reality and exposes bias. Magazines use phrases like "our test firearm did not display the standard accuracy the XYZ lineup is noted for." Or, "more than accurate enough for hunting...". I bought the latest issue of Am*****n H***G*****r, March/April 2020. Page 44 has an article on the SIG P320 X5 Legion, a 43 oz 9mm Tactical pistol. At 25 yards, from a Matrix rest, "...tended toward 4+1 clusters running in the 3" to 4" range." The best quote: "the best group was 3.05" for 5-shots, and the best (closest) three shots in 1.3"...". Well known Massad Ayoob was responsible for the article. The SIG retails for $1080, I bought mine two weeks ago for $1000, out the door locally. Some testing with my hand loads has gotten me consistent 5-shot groups in the 2 to 2.5" range at 25 from a two-handed sand bag rest off a bench.

Article standards like this are what convinced me to leave the firearms writing field 20 years ago.

If I may generalize, print magazines are a dying breed. Websites like this are the new genre of choice. The data is based on people with no $$$ axe to grind. Hundreds of them in most cases. Actual competition data cannot be skewed to suit a revenue, or other based outcome. Match reports tell the truth.

The truth is that Hornady believes they make accurate bullets. The only magazine I would believe regarding the accuracy of factory firearms or ammunition is Consumer Reports. They buy all of the products they test anonymously. It is a shame they do not do firearms or related products. It really is.

 

[BronzeArcher]

However, if I was a competitive target shooter looking for the "ultimate" bullet I'd look no further than the top winning shooters and see what they are shooting. They must have figure something out.

The challenge with this approach is one is always behind the curve if you wait and see what works for others. I think many of us are hoping to be "ahead of the curve" and gain an advantage by being an early adopter of new products or techniques.

If Hornady’s advertising claims were even remotely related to real world performance they’d be the only bullet used by every serious competition shooter. No other bullet would appear at any national competition. Here in the real world Hornady dominates no competitive shooting sport for very good reason.

My students and I have shot lots of Hornady bullets through the years, but we favor Sierras and Bergers in competition. All bullets show lot to lot variations, but our experience is that Hornady variations are more likely to tank accuracy and to lead to unexpected jacket failures. But there are definitely some boxes of Hornady bullets that shoot very, very well. It's not really knowing what that next box is going to do if the lot number is different ...

I've thought for some time that an aluminum tipped bullet might be the key feature for optimizing BC while minimizing BC variations. And Hornady can clearly hit home runs for bullet consistency in one box. If they solve the lot problem ...

Considering the price of each shot when one factors in travel, match fees, barrel life, and other component costs, I wouldn't mind paying the Atip price ... If they solve the lot problem.

 

[Stan Taylor]

I rather suspect they have came along way on how they standardize there products.
Look what they did with the almighty ( 6.5 creedmoor) I can't keep 6.5 barrels on the shelf.LOL

 

[bozo699]

I have heard from the highest authority that a 70 grain 22 cal Speer sp shot out of a 1:16 twist 14” contender chambered in 22 hornet is the most accurate combination in the world period the end!........
Wayne

 

[pertnear]

The groups posted & talked about in this thread are phenomenal! When I first started reloading (I bought Issue #1 of Handloader Magazine!), I was a kid & reading every gun magazine I could get my hands on. The rule of thumb was "Shoot Sierra's for accuracy but shoot Speer's for game." If you were a bench shooter you bought or DIY'd hand-made bullets. The truism always was & still is that each rifle has a bullet preference of its own when it comes to accuracy. But shooter's expectations have changed also. A rifle that doesn't shoot a certain Berger or Hornady well becomes suspect. A Creedmore better shoot Hornady's factory ammo at least pretty well or all is lost. I guess you could call it the "theory of standard loads".

My totally unsubstantiated opinion is that the hand-made bullets would still edge out factory bullets but a meaningful test would be hard to devise. All I can say is, the world of shooting & handloading keeps getting more & more interesting (& I'm loving it!). Now please excuse me, I have to go out & try to find my 6.8's secondary accuracy node.....

 

[shoot4fun]

Can anybody here point me to any matches of substance (you beating your brother at a just the two of you match don't count) anywhere in the competition world where Hornady has beaten Bergers? At this point in time, Berger's records speak for themselves. Hornady? Noise is all it is...

tick-tock...

acyr,

as a self-proclaimed "mediocre FTR shooter"; how much credibility can we attach to your statement?

We measure it by records set only?
I think you should look at how long Berger has been in the game vs the Hornady A-Tip. Decades against under two years. I have been a long time Berger and Lapua fanboy but the last couple years I've seen quite a degradation in overall quality from both. No, this is not to dinegrate either brand but merely to say they are being given all the competition they can handle by some of the new-comers. Yes, I still use both quite a bit but now I spend more time sorting bullets and brass.
My best shooting over the years in both short and long range BR shooting (where accuracy is a premium) has been with Bart's Bullets.

 

[davidjoe]

Absolutely none.

(Idaho, keep in mind no one else would describe Acyr in TR that way he did and he has definitely worked the most comparing all the latest heavy match 30’s)

The 190 A-Tips were the last to be released, basically right as ranges shut down public matches. 7mm is so popular few of the other A-Tips have even been shot in a match.

I was planning test Berger 190’s against A-Tip 190’s at Bayou in a Saum but reading above, there’s no time like the present.

 

[Bill Norris]

(Idaho, keep in mind no one else would describe Acyr in TR that way he did and he has definitely worked the most comparing all the latest heavy match 30’s)

The 190 A-Tips were the last to be released, basically right as ranges shut down public matches. 7mm is so popular few of the other A-Tips have even been shot in a match.

I was planning test Berger 190’s against A-Tip 190’s at Bayou in a Saum but reading above, there’s no time like the present.

Great job Bro. Please keep us posted with results.

 

[davidjoe]

Atips 190 in a SAUM shorting into a varying 20 MPH - 1/3 value wind with attached weather, and targets when reception is better.

610 actual yards to target. Very good velocity.

The load between the Hornadys and Bergers are identical, as is the rifle and shooter. The load itself I don’t want to repeat, but the A-Tips had more than 40 FPS velocity advantage on target and more than 10 FPS smaller SD.

They handled the 20 MPH frontal wind better with less vertical and they obviously dropped no points relative to the Berger’s 190’s several 9’s.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

It would indeed, be, as Grand Funk Railroad sang nearly half a century ago; "Some kind of wonderful..." if Hornady can and will build a match winner. We need more choices. Nosler too, for that matter.

I will admit, that I was born in Missouri. Well known as the "Show Me State...".

 

[davidjoe]

190 A-Tips are the first target. None of them blew up I should add in my 36 inch barrel. That is the Achilles Heel of their match line.

 

[davidjoe]

A-Tips at about 2,350 at 610 yards.

 

[davidjoe]

Berger 190’s in same wind, gun, load, shooter, requiring significant vertical dope not to be shoved low. Lower velocity on target. Higher SD from less ability to shirk strong headwinds.

 

[davidjoe]

Weather at range.

 

[INTJ]

Here is how Berger 108s shoot from an LR BR Light Gun in good conditions at 600 yds. This group is still three times larger than the best ever shot at 600.

 

[rardoin]

@davidjoe

David, same point of hold for each shot or were you holding for the wind?

 

[davidjoe]

@davidjoe

David, same point of hold for each shot or were you holding for the wind?

I shot attempting to correct to center like I would in a match.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

The most accurate bullet is the "one" that works for you,... period! I have some guns that love Hornady ELD's and some that love Sierra's figuring it out is the real challenge.

 

[davidjoe]

Here is how Berger 108s shoot from an LR BR Light Gun in good conditions at 600 yds. This group is still three times larger than the best ever shot at 600.

View attachment 1180309

Yes, it’s all about conditions. I’ve shot many tiny Berger groups even with big magnums. Today it was showing 20 mph in town and it was that or more at the line.

Both Berger weight sides of the H-190’s seem to have better results so far. I’m only trying them because I have blown up my favorite 7mm, the 195 EOL in a saum, confining my use of them to a .284.

These A-Tips may elbow the 195’s though. There is real problem Hornady has, frangible match bullets. I watched on Sunday a friend lose repeatedly, ELDM’s through a .284.

I have some reservation that A-Tio jackets are the same as ELDM jackets. If they don’t blow up, these are checking all the boxes so far heads up, with the Berger 190’s.

 

[INTJ]

Yes, it’s all about conditions. I’ve shot many tiny Berger groups even with big magnums. Today it was showing 20 mph in town and it was that or more at the line.

Both Berger weight sides of the H-190’s seem to have better results so far. I’m only trying them because I have blown up my favorite 7mm, the 195 EOL in a saum, confining my use of them to a .284.

These A-Tips may elbow the 195’s though. There is real problem Hornady has, frangible match bullets. I watched on Sunday a friend lose repeatedly, ELDM’s through a .284.

I have some reservation that A-Tio jackets are the same as ELDM jackets. If they don’t blow up, these are checking all the boxes so far heads up, with the Berger 190’s.

My only point is addressing the claim that the A-Tips are the best bullet ever. The best bullet is very application specific and the bar is high.....