Bullets leaving range hitting houses

[INTJ]

I remember almost buying a new home in a new neighborhood the developer said was not in the approach path the the nearby airport. When he told me that, I said "what are you talking about. These homes are directly under the pattern for the south runway. I've been watching these homes being built from my airplane. They're right under me when I'm landing". Being in Ca. where everyone sues for everything, they updated their sales speech. My wife lost a job while in closing and we backed out.

Some woman who'd been renting a home under the approach path for 9 years was offered an opportunity to buy it. She did, and then came to the next airport meeting ( I was there too as a flight school owner at that airport) and complained about aircraft noise and wanting to shut down the airport. To which I responded "you've been living there for 9 years and suddenly you're hearing aircraft noise after you bought your home. Couldn't be you imagine your home value would go up appreciably if the airport was closed?"

She was busted at that point and shut up.

I usually liked it when planes flew over my house. Except for the noisy F-18s when they landed in the West Runway at Randolph on the weekend. I was okay when F-15s flew over though.

The T-1s I was flying then were much quieter. In fact, around 8 mile final on the East Runway was directly over the local gun range I used. Straight down the rifle range. T-1s, T-38s, and T-43s commonly used that runway. The noisiest plane was probably the T-37 with its ear splitting whistle.

That said, even though Randolph AFB has been in existence since 1935, there were occasional noise complaints. The only time I am aware of a Wing Commander caring about noise complaints was when bases had F-4s. They were VERY loud......

 

[rkittine]

When I was at Moody, we were flying over a lot of residential properties, but hard to fight with the government. At Patrick, we were out over water most of the time. The manager at East Hampton Airport was a T-37 IP.

Bob

 

[dc.fireman]

"We built $2M worth of baffles, and berms behind each yardage to make sure it never happens again. The conditions on a few of the baffles tells me that it was worth every penny."

Fairfax Rod and gun at Manassas ? Have shot Highpower, Smallbore prone and one BR for score match there in years past. One match was after the baffles went up. The Izaak Walton range at Centerville is baffled also. They had a similar situation years ago and I was told the "offending round" was a complete .45ACP cartridge found inside a residence, came through a windo. No glass found inside the house, all broken glass was outside.

Correct. Our baffles are exactly like the ones in @Dusty Stevens picture below - they are filled with pea gravel, and are staged at distances to prevent a blue sky condition from the firing line. When we were "discussing" whether or not to even implement the baffle systems on the ranges, several members walked the hill lines above the target impact areas. Most of the trees had bullet impacts/bullets embedded in them. It was theorized that many of them were coming from rounds not properly impacting the berms, or falling short, and 'skipping' into the tree lines. The berm built on the smallbore prone range was put there to prevent the 50 yard rounds from doing just that, on what had essentially been a flat range, all the way out to 115 yards.

It is now as @Dusty Stevens describes: the only way a round is leaving the club, is if it is fired out the back side of the firing line, into the creek/river.

 

[PhilC]

I usually liked it when planes flew over my house. Except for the noisy F-18s when they landed in the West Runway at Randolph on the weekend. I was okay when F-15s flew over though.

The T-1s I was flying then were much quieter. In fact, around 8 mile final on the East Runway was directly over the local gun range I used. Straight down the rifle range. T-1s, T-38s, and T-43s commonly used that runway. The noisiest plane was probably the T-37 with its ear splitting whistle.

That said, even though Randolph AFB has been in existence since 1935, there were occasional noise complaints. The only time I am aware of a Wing Commander caring about noise complaints was when bases had F-4s. They were VERY loud......

Noisy? You haven't heard noisy until you lived under the flight path when C-124s were the norm. Our house, and school I attended, were inline with departures to the north (McChord AFB, WA) and they would rattle the windows 10mi from the departure end. I loved it.

Even the "A" model 141s were loud (my dad was flight engineer).

I loved them all, but the worst I experienced during my career were multi-ship departures of F-105s while working in the ILS shelter at Tinker AFB.

Will always be the sound of freedom for me.

 

[rkittine]

I do a lot of flying in and out of the Old Stewart Airforce Base, now Stewart / Newburg. Largest C-5A base in the country. Some interesting noises there!

 

[F Class John]

These 'eyebrows' are what we have all over our club. While I cringe seeing the random impacts, I'd rather be looking at those strikes on the barrier than my guns in a safe cuz I have nowhere to shoot....

 

[rkittine]

I wish out club had seen some of these alternatives before putting in the concrete tunnels. It reeks havoc with my Lab Radar Chrono and to use my 35, you have to put it 30 feet down range at the other end of the tunnel.

Bob

 

[Papa Charlie]

These 'eyebrows' are what we have all over our club. While I cringe seeing the random impacts, I'd rather be looking at those strikes on the barrier than my guns in a safe cuz I have nowhere to shoot....
View attachment 1179640

Maybe it is an optical illusion, but those cement brows seem very close the firing line. I would be worried that if someone hit one, it could ricochet back at the line.

Reading through this thread, I find it amazing the lengths that ranges have to go through to keep people from firing a round not on target. I have seen some things at the range I use to be a member at that made me cringe. But the mentality of some of these people is scary.

 

[F Class John]

Maybe it is an optical illusion, but those cement brows seem very close the firing line. I would be worried that if someone hit one, it could ricochet back at the line.

Reading through this thread, I find it amazing the lengths that ranges have to go through to keep people from firing a round not on target. I have seen some things at the range I use to be a member at that made me cringe. But the mentality of some of these people is scary.

The ones in my picture are about 25yds away. No issues I’m aware of.

 

[Jdne5b]

The anti’s just can’t win. Supposing they could figure out how to pull a bullet out of the case without setting it off, we’d just say, hey there’s no rifling on that bullet.

You would think so. But an unrifled bullet got the 600 shut down at a range in KC many years ago. It would have bankrupted the club to fight it enough to win. So now the range is covered with baffles and no 600yd range.

Funny part is.. now the hundreds of thousands of dollars in baffles have created an metallic echo/pinging sound from the concussion of the shots. It has increased the noise from the range by an unbelievable amount. Neighbors are pissed. "Well.. sorry, at least it's just noise and not bullets hitting your house". So now they're consulting with sound control outfits.

 

[338 dude]

The ones in my picture are about 25yds away. No issues I’m aware of.

25 yards is not enough in my opinion I’m sure if you look you could find recommendations on shooting a steel target with a rifle that will not want you to place a target within 100 yards those brows should be made to absorb and retain a bullet strike and not something that would allow it to ricochet

 

[topclass2017]

I agree.

You would think common sense should win the day, and say, you built this house close to a Plant, gun range, airport, or whatever, and you knew it was there, so tough luck, but that's not the way it happens in most cases.

I have personal experience with a manufacturing plant that was built miles away from anything, as urban sprawl caught up with it, someone built a sub-division next door. Long story short, to end the lawsuits, the plant bought five or six houses that could feel the bump of the punch press, that was bumping years before they built the houses.

My grandpa had a saying: "he has so little sense he couldn't make change for a nickle". Seems appropriate

 

[F Class John]

25 yards is not enough in my opinion I’m sure if you look you could find recommendations on shooting a steel target with a rifle that will not want you to place a target within 100 yards those brows should be made to absorb and retain a bullet strike and not something that would allow it to ricochet

All I know is they were installed based on the best information available and after extensive engineering and ballistic studies were done. With nearly 6,000 members and city all around us, nothing is done lightly here. Everyone’s safety is top of mind.

 

[338 dude]

All I know is they were installed based on the best information available and after extensive engineering and ballistic studies were done. With nearly 6,000 members and city all around us, nothing is done lightly here. Everyone’s safety is top of mind.

Apparently opinions vary the minimum distance for a steel target angled downward is 25 yards with a pistol rifle targets should be 100 to 300 yards away depending on caliber I don’t see any angle on the brows you are talking about and concrete will deflect a bullet as well

 

[338 dude]

All I know is they were installed based on the best information available and after extensive engineering and ballistic studies were done. With nearly 6,000 members and city all around us, nothing is done lightly here. Everyone’s safety is top of mind.

I agree it is safe for the city all around and probably would not let a bullet get out of the range I am questioning Shooter safety it seems we have appeased the people of the city but put the shooters at much more risk

 

[F Class John]

View attachment 1179707
Apparently opinions vary the minimum distance for a steel target angled downward is 25 yards with a pistol rifle targets should be 100 to 300 yards away depending on caliber I don’t see any angle on the brows you are talking about and concrete will deflect a bullet as well

I'm not out to argue my clubs decisions, they have way more attorneys and safety engineers on staff than I do and trust me, club member safety is of the highest priority as well. But I also know concrete and steel are two completely different animals. Concrete by nature will absorb and diffuse the shot far more effectively than steel. In any event, I'm sure the nature and business of bullet safety is always evolving and we will continue to see ranges put up bigger and more stringent barriers to off-campus shots as time goes on.

 

[338 dude]

I'm not out to argue my clubs decisions, they have way more attorneys and safety engineers on staff than I do and trust me, club member safety is of the highest priority as well. But I also know concrete and steel are two completely different animals. Concrete by nature will absorb and diffuse the shot far more effectively than steel. In any event, I'm sure the nature and business of bullet safety is always evolving and we will continue to see ranges put up bigger and more stringent barriers to off-campus shots as time goes on.

I certainly am not trying to argue with you either sir I’m just trying to understand what does not make sense to me I am not a lawyer and do not know the legal ramifications I am all for any range doing whatever they have to do to stay open no matter how sad it is that we have to do so

 

[Hohn]

I usually liked it when planes flew over my house. Except for the noisy F-18s when they landed in the West Runway at Randolph on the weekend. I was okay when F-15s flew over though.

The T-1s I was flying then were much quieter. In fact, around 8 mile final on the East Runway was directly over the local gun range I used. Straight down the rifle range. T-1s, T-38s, and T-43s commonly used that runway. The noisiest plane was probably the T-37 with its ear splitting whistle.

That said, even though Randolph AFB has been in existence since 1935, there were occasional noise complaints. The only time I am aware of a Wing Commander caring about noise complaints was when bases had F-4s. They were VERY loud......

F4s-- proof that even a brick will fly with a pair of J79s pushing it.

I spent all of my 20s and then some wearing USAF uniforms.

 

[Hohn]

You would think so. But an unrifled bullet got the 600 shut down at a range in KC many years ago. It would have bankrupted the club to fight it enough to win. So now the range is covered with baffles and no 600yd range.

Funny part is.. now the hundreds of thousands of dollars in baffles have created an metallic echo/pinging sound from the concussion of the shots. It has increased the noise from the range by an unbelievable amount. Neighbors are pissed. "Well.. sorry, at least it's just noise and not bullets hitting your house". So now they're consulting with sound control outfits.

Might want to pass the complainants the information about the Hearing Protection Act. Why, yes I would LOVE to make less sound, but see the government won't let me buy the necessary accessory without paying a large tax and waiting almost a year to get it. Can you call your congressman and suggest Congress make it easier for me to shoot with less noise?

 

[ToddKS]

View attachment 1179707
Apparently opinions vary the minimum distance for a steel target angled downward is 25 yards with a pistol rifle targets should be 100 to 300 yards away depending on caliber I don’t see any angle on the brows you are talking about and concrete will deflect a bullet as well

If this information were true then Steel Challenge would not exist. I can understand those recommendations for liability purposes but people have been safely shooting steel targets with handguns at far less than 25 yards for many years.

Also, there is a difference between intentionally shooting at target which is squared up to the shooter and a system that is designed to catch/deflect errant bullets. The baffle plates at my indoor start just in front of the firing line. They are engineered to deflect the bullet fragments down range.